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March 5, 2025

Why Do Christians Defend Yoga?

Why Do Christians Defend Yoga?

Can New Age practices like yoga find a place within the Christian faith, or are they inherently incompatible? This episode of Honest Christian Conversations dares to tackle this provocative question head-on. With my insightful guest, David Libby, we explore the spiritual dimensions and potential conflicts that arise when practices traditionally rooted in other religions are integrated into Christian life.

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https://www.honestchristianconversations.com/faith-and-resilience-in-the-face-of-chronic-illness/

https://www.honestchristianconversations.com/what-if-you-werent-miraculously-healed/

Link for Season Four Resources:
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Chapters

00:00 - Redeeming New Age Practices

13:09 - Deceptive Practices in Spiritual Circles

20:01 - Christianizing Divination and Worship Practices

29:40 - Biblical Discernment and Spiritual Truth

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:00.119 --> 00:00:10.071
On this episode of Honest Christian Conversations, I am joined once more by my brother in Christ, david Libby, to discuss the topic of redeeming New Age practices.

00:00:10.071 --> 00:00:16.967
Is there a way to save these practices so that Christians can safely do them, or is this just another false teaching?

00:00:16.967 --> 00:00:23.361
Keep listening to learn which practices we are talking about and whether it's even a biblical concept.

00:00:23.361 --> 00:00:38.927
Before the episode starts, make sure you follow the show so you never miss another episode.

00:00:38.927 --> 00:00:40.932
Thank you, david, for coming on today.

00:00:40.932 --> 00:00:56.148
I am very excited to talk about this topic because it's a mixture of different subjects, but one of them has been talked about a lot lately because it's starting to become an issue everyone's eyes are open to, one being yoga.

00:00:56.148 --> 00:01:05.394
But we are going to be talking about new age practices and I'm very excited that you took the time to come on and discuss this with me.

00:01:05.394 --> 00:01:08.388
Let's get into it, okay.

00:01:08.888 --> 00:01:09.730
Well, thank you, anna.

00:01:09.730 --> 00:01:12.921
I'm awfully glad that you invited me to talk about this.

00:01:12.921 --> 00:01:14.745
I've never been an occultist.

00:01:14.745 --> 00:01:16.390
I've never been in the New Age movement.

00:01:16.390 --> 00:01:17.361
I know people who have.

00:01:17.361 --> 00:01:26.605
I have a very good friend who, before he was converted to Christianity, was on the road to becoming a New Age priest, and he tells some interesting stories.

00:01:26.605 --> 00:01:29.390
He's seen supernatural things which are demonic in nature.

00:01:29.390 --> 00:01:37.194
The New Age is just like Hinduism and Islam and Mormonism and all kinds of other Freemasonry secret societies.

00:01:37.194 --> 00:01:39.709
These aren't just things of human invention.

00:01:39.709 --> 00:01:44.224
These things have demonic roots and I'm flattered that you would invite me.

00:01:44.224 --> 00:02:04.468
I have studied this and I am ministering in an area in central Maine where there's a lot of New Age influence and a lot of Wiccans and a lot of Covens, and so this is stuff that we are somewhat involved in, but there are others out there who are better experts at it than I am.

00:02:04.468 --> 00:02:08.711
So I'm flattered that you would invite me and I'm very, very glad to be here yeah, no problem.

00:02:09.072 --> 00:02:12.088
So which topic do you want to talk about first?

00:02:12.088 --> 00:02:17.382
Do we start with the elephant in the room of yoga, or should we go to the other ones?

00:02:17.542 --> 00:02:34.280
that nobody's probably thinking, uh nice, we'll start with the outfit, I guess, if that's what you want to do yeah, well, yoga, uh, I never really liked yoga, even before I found any of this other stuff about it out.

00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:37.105
I just I could never really do the poses.

00:02:37.105 --> 00:02:40.332
I didn't understand why you had to be so perfect with it.

00:02:40.332 --> 00:02:46.360
Everyone always made it look so flawless and so fabulous, but I was just like it just wasn't for me.

00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:47.847
I'm like I can just stretch.

00:02:47.847 --> 00:02:52.984
I don't need to stretch in some weird pose, so I was just never really a fan of it.

00:02:52.984 --> 00:03:09.592
But once again, 2020 has really opened my eyes to a lot of different things, and this was one of them, and I started learning what is really yoga is about, and it's more of a spiritual worship of Hindu deity.

00:03:09.592 --> 00:03:17.454
You're acting out poses from different fight scenes, or whatever you're, as Doreen Virtue calls it.

00:03:17.454 --> 00:03:19.526
She's amazing, by the way.

00:03:19.645 --> 00:03:20.468
Yeah, I agree.

00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:21.622
Her YouTube.

00:03:21.622 --> 00:03:22.787
Follow her YouTube.

00:03:23.188 --> 00:03:23.269
Amen.

00:03:23.599 --> 00:03:26.729
Talks about how it's like a graven image.

00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:56.156
You're turning yourself into a graven image and if that doesn't scare you into getting away from yoga as fast as possible, then I don't really know what will, because we are told not to have any idols above God and we're always thinking the whole oh well, you know, maybe I'm on social media too much, so maybe I'm making that an idol, or I watch too much TV or video games or I eat too much, but no one's thinking about yoga as, oh, I'm idolizing with my body, I'm doing something really wrong.

00:03:56.376 --> 00:03:57.396
Nobody's thought about that.

00:03:57.396 --> 00:04:10.807
They are now because it's starting to be something that a lot of Christian podcasters are talking about.

00:04:10.807 --> 00:04:22.644
But it's a subject that is, it breeds contempt for those who really like it Christian or not Christian and those who don't it like breeds a fighting spirit between them, and it's really sad because, especially for Christians, we should not be at war against each other.

00:04:22.644 --> 00:04:33.632
If it says that you are worshiping other gods by doing this and you're creating yourself into a graven image, I feel like all Christians should be able to get behind that and say, yeah, this is bad, we shouldn't be doing it.

00:04:33.632 --> 00:04:34.745
But that's not the case.

00:04:35.139 --> 00:04:40.529
Well, I agree with you and you know, I remember a time I think I'm a little older than you.

00:04:40.529 --> 00:04:41.452
I'm 55.

00:04:41.452 --> 00:04:43.302
Yeah, 40, so not too much older than you.

00:04:43.302 --> 00:04:43.882
I'm 55.

00:04:43.882 --> 00:04:44.122
Yeah, 40,.

00:04:44.122 --> 00:04:45.144
So not too much, okay, not too much right.

00:04:45.144 --> 00:04:51.853
But I remember, you know, maybe when I was 20 or so, I remember yoga being something that Christians would not do.

00:04:51.853 --> 00:05:05.026
And that's all changed and I grew up in an ecclesiastical tradition, in Reformed churches, where there was a very strong emphasis on sound doctrine, and even in those churches now pastors' wives are doing yoga.

00:05:05.379 --> 00:05:09.168
And it really amazes me, and I guess, even beyond what you said.

00:05:09.168 --> 00:05:27.009
I agree 100% with everything you said about the graven image, second commandment, but even beyond that, what we see in yoga is an intentional act of worship being offered to a pantheon of idols, gods that aren't really gods, and I believe there are demonic influences behind these gods.

00:05:27.009 --> 00:05:28.947
I don't believe it's simply man-made idols.

00:05:28.947 --> 00:05:32.971
So we have the Hindu pantheon and yoga being actually venerated and worshipped.

00:05:32.971 --> 00:05:39.384
When I mentioned the poses, we all agree that physical exercise is a good thing, right, I mean, there's nothing wrong with physical exercise.

00:05:39.384 --> 00:05:49.112
But you can't do these poses in yoga without there being acts of worship to this Hindu pantheon.

00:05:49.112 --> 00:05:50.526
That's what they're intended to be.

00:05:50.526 --> 00:05:53.007
Our actions and our words have objective meaning behind them.

00:05:53.841 --> 00:05:57.132
I think you mentioned the warrior poses, the Virabhadrasana.

00:05:57.132 --> 00:06:06.761
You're actually acting out in these warrior poses, You're acting out a murder scene where Shiva was being avenged by Virabhadra, and the worst part of it isn't that it's a murder scene where Shiva was being avenged by Virabhadra, and the worst part of it isn't that it's a murder scene.

00:06:06.761 --> 00:06:14.288
The worst part is it's a murder scene as an act of veneration for Virabhadra as he vindicated Shiva or avenged Shiva.

00:06:14.288 --> 00:06:15.512
I'm fuzzy on the details.

00:06:15.512 --> 00:06:16.827
I read about this years ago.

00:06:16.827 --> 00:06:18.343
You mentioned the elephant in the room.

00:06:18.343 --> 00:06:20.723
It's interesting that Ganesha's involved somehow as well.

00:06:20.723 --> 00:06:21.666
Ganesha was the elephant head.

00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:28.824
It somehow as well, because that was the elephant head.

00:06:28.824 --> 00:06:29.507
It is so funny.

00:06:29.507 --> 00:06:30.309
Yeah, I don't get it.

00:06:30.309 --> 00:06:30.649
I don't.

00:06:30.649 --> 00:06:33.459
I don't understand what the appeal is to the to the point that christians defend it.

00:06:33.459 --> 00:06:35.583
I mean to think about it.

00:06:36.043 --> 00:06:42.413
Where in any other sort of workout do they critique your position?

00:06:42.413 --> 00:06:42.975
I do.

00:06:42.975 --> 00:06:44.886
I've worked out before.

00:06:44.886 --> 00:06:50.148
I've seen some videos where they say make sure you're doing it right because you don't want to hurt yourself.

00:06:50.148 --> 00:07:13.367
But they're not going to come up behind you and make sure that your squat is absolutely, 100%, exact the way they think it should be or the way they were taught it should be, as long as you look pretty much safe, you know, I've been told you keep your feet up and if you can wiggle your feet, then you've got your body set in the correct position to do a squat.

00:07:13.367 --> 00:07:15.591
That's pretty much all they tell you.

00:07:15.591 --> 00:07:20.990
They don't sit there scrutinizing you 100 percent, make sure it looks great.

00:07:20.990 --> 00:07:23.446
But that's what they do with yoga.

00:07:23.446 --> 00:07:27.624
I've seen it in movies, I've seen it in shows, I've seen classes.

00:07:27.624 --> 00:07:30.529
They're constantly making sure you're doing it right.

00:07:30.850 --> 00:07:33.723
Your arm may not be all the way up where it should be.

00:07:33.723 --> 00:07:34.564
What do you mean?

00:07:34.564 --> 00:07:36.629
My arm isn't all the way up where it should be.

00:07:36.629 --> 00:07:38.800
It's up, it's practically up.

00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:40.641
It looks like everyone else's.

00:07:40.641 --> 00:07:43.463
Why are you pushing it down just a little bit?

00:07:43.463 --> 00:07:48.567
Because you're not in the graven image position that you need to be to do the worship.

00:07:48.567 --> 00:07:49.709
You're doing it wrong.

00:07:50.129 --> 00:07:50.790
That's correct.

00:07:51.449 --> 00:07:57.574
They won't say that, but that's what it is, and if you think about it then it's like good gracious you should stop right now.

00:07:58.776 --> 00:08:01.218
Yeah those poses are meant to be.

00:08:01.218 --> 00:08:02.839
They are intentionally.

00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:12.468
Now, I don't necessarily mean intentional on the part of the person practicing yoga, the person could be ignorant, but it is an intentional act of worship and as God is very particular about how we used to be worshipped, so is Satan.

00:08:12.468 --> 00:08:19.872
So these poses are an intentional act of worship and therefore you've got to get it right or you're not worshipping correctly.

00:08:19.872 --> 00:08:27.749
Actually Hindu prayers, hindu prayers being offered to a pantheon of demon gods, a pantheon of false gods.

00:08:28.141 --> 00:08:28.709
I'm reminded of a text.

00:08:28.709 --> 00:08:28.973
Do you mind?

00:08:28.973 --> 00:08:39.533
If I read a little text from Ezekiel, I can find the right one, because this actually, I think is very appropriate to what we're talking about here with yoga.

00:08:39.533 --> 00:08:44.446
Now, this isn't a text about yoga specifically, but I'll read it and then we can give a little commentary on it.

00:08:44.446 --> 00:08:47.489
Look Ezekiel 8, starting at verse 13,.

00:08:48.462 --> 00:08:52.711
And he said to me Turn again and you will see greater abominations that they are doing.

00:08:52.711 --> 00:08:58.913
So he brought me to the door of the north gate of the Lord's house and, to my dismay, women were sitting there weeping for Tammuz.

00:08:58.913 --> 00:09:01.808
Now, weeping for Tammuz, you know they weren't actually weeping.

00:09:01.808 --> 00:09:08.360
It's kind of a ritual that they would go through as an act of worship to these Canaanite gods.

00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:10.145
But that's the same thing that you're doing.

00:09:10.145 --> 00:09:11.711
When you're doing these yoga poses.

00:09:11.711 --> 00:09:20.095
You're essentially, for instance, the details, you're not weeping for Tammuz, but the essence of it is exactly the same thing.

00:09:20.095 --> 00:09:32.216
You're using poses and in Aum and Namaste you're using the prayers and so forth that are actually being offered as a ritual, as a form of worship to these Hindu gods.

00:09:32.216 --> 00:09:36.851
But if I read on a little bit from here, then he said to me have you seen this, o son of man?

00:09:36.851 --> 00:09:39.245
Turn again and you will see greater abominations than these.

00:09:39.245 --> 00:09:53.363
And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house and there, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about 25 men with their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces toward the east, and they were worshiping the sun toward the east.

00:09:53.442 --> 00:09:58.149
Okay, so in yoga you've got the whole series of poses, the sun salutation poses.

00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:02.096
That is very literally the exact same thing that they were doing here in Ezekiel 8.

00:10:02.096 --> 00:10:03.485
They're worshiping the sun.

00:10:03.485 --> 00:10:06.089
The sun salutation poses in yoga are sun worship.

00:10:06.089 --> 00:10:10.272
You know exactly the same thing we read about right here, which God calls an abomination.

00:10:10.272 --> 00:10:12.105
If I could read just a couple of verses more.

00:10:12.105 --> 00:10:13.090
Yeah, of course.

00:10:13.090 --> 00:10:15.527
And he said to me have you seen this, o son of man?

00:10:15.527 --> 00:10:20.769
Is it a trivial thing to the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they commit here?

00:10:20.769 --> 00:10:22.524
For they have filled the land with violence.

00:10:22.524 --> 00:10:25.229
They have returned to provoke me to anger.

00:10:25.229 --> 00:10:27.297
Indeed, they put the branch to their nose.

00:10:27.297 --> 00:10:28.965
Therefore, I will act in fury.

00:10:28.965 --> 00:10:30.604
Those are strong words.

00:10:30.604 --> 00:10:32.001
I will act in fury.

00:10:32.001 --> 00:10:38.347
My eye will not spare, nor will I have pity, and though they cry in my ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them.

00:10:38.347 --> 00:10:41.913
Those are really strong words from the almighty Lord of hosts.

00:10:42.575 --> 00:10:42.794
Yeah.

00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:55.307
Which kind of reminds me of an underlying problem that I think forms a foundation for the acceptance of things like yoga within the church, and that is that we have lost our fear of God.

00:10:55.307 --> 00:10:55.849
Don't you think?

00:10:55.849 --> 00:10:59.510
To fear God doesn't mean that we're scared of him as if he were our enemy?

00:10:59.510 --> 00:11:02.089
He's not our enemy, but it does actually mean to be scared.

00:11:02.089 --> 00:11:04.304
You know, he's a consuming fire.

00:11:04.304 --> 00:11:08.908
Hebrews 12, 28 tells us, and that's in relation to his elect, his people.

00:11:08.908 --> 00:11:12.442
So we've lost the fear of God and so we think, ah, he doesn't really care that much.

00:11:12.482 --> 00:11:19.594
But when I look at what yoga actually is, it's really the same thing that's happening here, and we have God saying that it's an abomination to him.

00:11:19.594 --> 00:11:22.799
It makes him very angry and his eye will not spear.

00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:24.864
He will not relent without repentance.

00:11:24.864 --> 00:11:33.951
We know that with repentance, all of a sudden, with true repentance, faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, even these abominations are forgiven and we're made new.

00:11:33.951 --> 00:11:36.244
But without repentance, god is not okay with this, this.

00:11:36.244 --> 00:11:41.592
He's not okay with these kinds of practices yeah, and it's a new age practice.

00:11:41.812 --> 00:11:45.820
If you look at it, it comes from eastern religion.

00:11:45.820 --> 00:11:53.841
Hello, there's the tip off that maybe christians should at least be a little aware because it's so popular.

00:11:53.841 --> 00:11:54.241
It's.

00:11:54.241 --> 00:11:59.645
It's everywhere, it's in the movies I watch, you know there's studios everywhere.

00:12:00.066 --> 00:12:14.975
But if you look at it and I know Doreen Virtue has mentioned it and a couple other people that I listen to who also talk about the subject, they all mention it that when you get involved in yoga you don't just stay just involved in yoga.

00:12:14.975 --> 00:12:27.399
Usually it leads you down a path to other practices that are new age in spirit, because you're not actually just working out Like if you were to go to the gym and pump weights.

00:12:27.399 --> 00:12:41.664
You're not going to all of a sudden find yourself in some sort of cult or whatever because you're just there to pump weights, but with yoga you find yourself diving deeper into it because you're emptying your mind, you're oming and all this stuff.

00:12:41.664 --> 00:12:57.105
You're doing all these things that are leading you to a darker path and you don't even know it or you don't see it as dark because you feel relaxed, you feel calm and all this stuff, but it is only short-lived.

00:12:57.506 --> 00:12:58.288
It's helping me.

00:12:58.288 --> 00:12:59.431
It can't be wrong, right.

00:13:00.152 --> 00:13:01.134
Yeah, yeah.

00:13:01.134 --> 00:13:05.649
Well, my back feels better and it's like well, there's other back stretches that you can do.

00:13:05.649 --> 00:13:09.049
That's not an excuse to keep going if you know it's wrong.

00:13:09.220 --> 00:13:15.688
Well, you know, and I'm not convinced, that Satan doesn't have the ability to give us temporal benefits for serving him.

00:13:15.688 --> 00:13:22.645
But if serving Satan makes me feel better here in this life, I want to feel terrible.

00:13:22.645 --> 00:13:24.772
If the cost of feeling better is serving Satan, I want to feel terrible.

00:13:24.772 --> 00:13:27.763
And if we serve him, we lose in the end big time.

00:13:34.830 --> 00:13:35.931
Who doesn't love free?

00:13:35.931 --> 00:13:37.251
I know I do.

00:13:37.251 --> 00:13:43.485
That's why I created a free seven-day devotional for those who want to go deeper with God.

00:13:43.485 --> 00:13:52.131
It's a short devotional full of encouragement, guidance and impactful Bible verses related to everyday struggles we all go through.

00:13:52.131 --> 00:13:56.246
I know you will love this devotional as much as I enjoyed writing it.

00:13:56.246 --> 00:13:59.854
And since it's digital, this devotional, as much as I enjoyed writing it.

00:13:59.854 --> 00:14:08.605
And since it's digital, you can do it anywhere, anytime, perfect for the person always on the go.

00:14:08.605 --> 00:14:10.049
Get the free devotional when you sign up for my mailing list.

00:14:10.070 --> 00:14:10.692
The link is in the show notes.

00:14:10.692 --> 00:14:14.605
Yeah, oh, Anna, thank you for mentioning the emptying of the mind, what you just said a minute ago.

00:14:14.605 --> 00:14:19.067
That should always be a red flag for any servant of the Lord.

00:14:19.067 --> 00:14:21.668
You know, we find that in things like you know, contemplative prayer.

00:14:21.799 --> 00:14:23.803
Yes, I wanted to talk to you about that too.

00:14:24.225 --> 00:14:25.889
Okay, okay, yeah, I mean.

00:14:26.289 --> 00:14:26.791
Bring it.

00:14:26.791 --> 00:14:27.832
Bring it, David.

00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:36.831
Contemplative prayer is presented as this way to, you know, draw closer to God, have a closer, you know, felt relationship with him.

00:14:36.831 --> 00:14:37.772
That is wonderful.

00:14:37.772 --> 00:14:42.229
To have a closer felt relationship with God, to have this subjective relationship.

00:14:42.229 --> 00:14:43.666
You know, there is an objective side.

00:14:43.666 --> 00:14:45.446
There's also a subjective side.

00:14:45.446 --> 00:14:47.488
We need to know God through the study of his word.

00:14:47.488 --> 00:14:50.408
We, you know, we, can't know God without knowing about him.

00:14:50.408 --> 00:14:52.893
But we could know all about him and not really know him.

00:14:52.893 --> 00:14:54.341
You know, no problem, it's great, you know.

00:14:54.341 --> 00:14:59.284
Jesus said in Revelation 3, behold, it's great.

00:14:59.284 --> 00:15:00.138
Jesus said in Revelation 3, behold, I stand at the door and knock.

00:15:00.138 --> 00:15:02.366
If anyone will open the door to me, I will come in and commune with them, dine with them.

00:15:02.366 --> 00:15:06.006
So I want to open that door, I want them to dine with me, commune with me.

00:15:06.006 --> 00:15:08.467
I want to have that felt relationship.

00:15:08.467 --> 00:15:22.923
But the problem with contemplative prayer it says you get that by emptying your mind and we do not find that anywhere in Scripture.

00:15:22.962 --> 00:15:24.205
We find exactly the opposite.

00:15:24.205 --> 00:15:26.628
We find the renewing of the mind, Meditating on Scripture.

00:15:26.628 --> 00:15:27.268
Exactly that's right.

00:15:27.268 --> 00:15:27.889
Gird up your mind.

00:15:27.889 --> 00:15:28.570
1 Peter 1.13,.

00:15:28.570 --> 00:15:31.212
I think the mind is always supposed to be actively engaged.

00:15:31.212 --> 00:15:32.293
God wants our minds.

00:15:32.293 --> 00:15:33.995
He doesn't want us to be empty vessels.

00:15:46.126 --> 00:15:47.006
That's what.

00:15:47.027 --> 00:15:48.288
Satan wants.

00:15:48.288 --> 00:15:51.090
Just empty yourself and he'll find something to fill that void with.

00:15:51.090 --> 00:15:54.951
It's not going to be anything good what I did hear about it.

00:15:54.951 --> 00:15:57.833
It sounded very new, agey, very you know.

00:15:57.833 --> 00:16:12.845
Empty your mind and like that does not sound like what we're supposed to be doing and I just I don't like how this these things are being taught to children in school too.

00:16:12.865 --> 00:16:15.229
I mean, yoga is a big thing in schools, public schools mostly.

00:16:15.229 --> 00:16:17.413
It's supposed to help relax the kids.

00:16:17.413 --> 00:16:32.110
It's like you know what else helps relax the kids, not yoga, because I've heard some stories about how kids have nightmares in bed, weddings and other things that happen afterwards and, hello, it's because they're demons attached to this stuff.

00:16:32.110 --> 00:16:34.159
It's not just a practice.

00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:40.302
If your child is acting different after doing any sort of yoga, perhaps you should look at the yoga.

00:16:40.702 --> 00:16:44.572
I mean this happened to me for a little bit when my girls were you know.

00:16:44.572 --> 00:16:59.770
They did some yoga at their school for a little while until I started learning more about this and I was like, yeah, this is bad, but I noticed some odd behaviors coming from them not to the extreme that I just mentioned, but they weren't acting quite themselves.

00:16:59.770 --> 00:17:04.249
So I just decided I'm going to tell their school no yoga, please.

00:17:04.249 --> 00:17:09.728
And I explained to my girls why they know that it's a fake God worship.

00:17:09.728 --> 00:17:17.865
That's basically what I told them, because they're young so they know that and they tell their teachers we can't do this, this is fake God worship.

00:17:17.865 --> 00:17:17.967
That.

00:17:17.967 --> 00:17:20.048
And they tell their teachers we can't do this, this is fake God worship.

00:17:20.048 --> 00:17:20.349
And it's fine.

00:17:20.349 --> 00:17:31.022
I'm fine with them knowing that and that they're carrying that on and their understanding and it just.

00:17:31.022 --> 00:17:38.143
It makes me angry that they're just putting this in the schools like this is something that's going to help kids or whatever, but I think it's harming them too, and nobody is batting an eye about it.

00:17:38.384 --> 00:17:42.153
Well, I think we need to maybe see a bigger picture here too that you know there is.

00:17:42.153 --> 00:18:08.151
We're seeing a worldwide rise in Luciferianism and, you know, I think we need to recognize that, we need to recognize the global influence of a Luciferian, luciferic system and maybe even come to see things like New Age, mormonism, freemasonry, any sequence societies, any of that things as different denominations maybe of Luciferianism and with that in mind, we can recognize that this is intentional.

00:18:08.151 --> 00:18:10.208
You know they're evangelizing.

00:18:10.208 --> 00:18:12.248
Well, it's not the good news.

00:18:12.248 --> 00:18:15.769
What would the opposite of that?

00:18:15.788 --> 00:18:18.125
be Evangelizing, they're devangelizing.

00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:21.902
But that's what they're doing, know they?

00:18:21.902 --> 00:18:22.644
They want our children.

00:18:22.644 --> 00:18:36.750
I I looked into some a little bit into, uh, after school satan clubs and so forth, but which are springing up all across the country there's some around me too, or where I live, you know yeah, I, I saw, I saw a little jingle recently, a little song.

00:18:36.810 --> 00:18:48.047
It sounded so cute and neat and it had a baphomet symbol while they were playing the song and it was about how Satan's not a scary guy, satan's a good guy and a nice guy, and little kids jingling.

00:18:48.047 --> 00:18:49.450
So this is intentional.

00:18:49.450 --> 00:18:51.634
It's intentional and of course it is.

00:18:51.634 --> 00:18:55.963
It's been intentional since Genesis 3, genesis 2, I think Anyway, so probably.

00:18:55.983 --> 00:19:08.435
If we're going to talk about the elephant in the room, we us too, I think, anyway, so probably if we're going to talk about the elephant in the room, Anna, we maybe ought to talk about how there have actually been attempts to Christianize yoga, right Like the praise moves, praise moves, prayer moves, yes.

00:19:09.518 --> 00:19:12.324
Oh my goodness, I love Christians.

00:19:12.324 --> 00:19:16.131
I understand what they think they're trying to do with this.

00:19:16.131 --> 00:19:20.961
I get the concept, what they think they're trying to do with this.

00:19:20.961 --> 00:19:22.645
I get the concept, I completely get the concept that we want to try to redeem it.

00:19:22.645 --> 00:19:25.352
But there's some things you just can't redeem.

00:19:25.352 --> 00:19:27.923
You know this is one of them.

00:19:27.923 --> 00:19:31.674
The poses themselves are worshiping idols.

00:19:31.674 --> 00:19:40.294
So how are you going to redeem that if all you're doing is switching the name and putting a Bible verse on it, but you're still doing the pose.

00:19:40.294 --> 00:19:41.801
That's the problem.

00:19:41.801 --> 00:19:51.411
Is the pose, not what it's called or whatever they explain it as the problem is the pose, because that's the worship.

00:19:51.859 --> 00:19:52.965
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

00:19:52.965 --> 00:20:00.973
I think that any of your listeners who aren't familiar with a little bit of theological doctrinal lingo a term called the regulative principle probably should become familiar with it.

00:20:00.973 --> 00:20:19.767
At the time of the Reformation, when Martin Luther nailed his 95 Theses on the church door, it sparked the Protestant Reformation, and what he was attempting to accomplish there wasn't to split from the Catholic Church, but he wanted to have an internal debate with another blowing up, and the Protestant Reformation was born, thankfully.

00:20:19.767 --> 00:20:29.361
But Luther it's understandable because he was a Catholic monk, but he wanted to retain as much as he could from Roman Catholicism in corporate worship, as much of the liturgy as he could.

00:20:29.361 --> 00:20:31.346
That wasn't overtly evil and sinful.

00:20:31.346 --> 00:20:34.961
Then later, reformers like John Calvin and others came along and said well, you know what?

00:20:34.961 --> 00:20:36.505
That's actually not going far enough.

00:20:36.505 --> 00:20:41.354
We need to regulate corporate worship from Scripture alone, from the New Testament alone.

00:20:41.354 --> 00:20:49.682
So, in other words, if a practice is not directly commanded by God, we shouldn't do it, and there's quite a stark difference there.

00:20:49.682 --> 00:20:53.121
And so what we see in the church today is what's often called the normative principle.

00:20:53.121 --> 00:20:56.086
If God hasn't forbidden it, therefore, it's okay.

00:20:56.086 --> 00:21:04.421
That's why we have clowns and mimes and interpretive dance and so forth in our services and all kinds of other weird stuff that goes even farther than that.

00:21:04.421 --> 00:21:09.903
But the regulative principle would say no, actually it's not okay to do things that God hasn't commanded.

00:21:09.903 --> 00:21:12.051
We have to stick with what he has prescribed.

00:21:12.051 --> 00:21:16.707
Let's get our definition of corporate worship from God's word, and from God's word alone.

00:21:16.707 --> 00:21:18.913
So that principle applies here.

00:21:18.913 --> 00:21:55.066
If you take a, a Hindu practice, a practice that is actually worship of the Hindu pantheon, as I'll read one of them, I'm going to turn to 1 Kings, chapter 12, and I'm going to read verses 28 through 33.

00:21:55.066 --> 00:21:59.013
So 1 Kings 12, 28 through 33.

00:22:01.500 --> 00:22:05.592
Okay, so the context here is when Solomon handed off the kingdom to his son, rehoboam.

00:22:05.592 --> 00:22:21.151
You know, solomon the wisest king had built the most foolish king to succeed him, and there was that split between the ten tribes of Israel and the two tribes that remained under Rehoboam, that would be Judah and Benjamin, and a man named Jeroboam, son of Nebat, became king of the ten tribes of Israel.

00:22:21.151 --> 00:22:22.862
So that's the context.

00:22:22.862 --> 00:22:30.750
So, therefore, the king, that's Jeroboam, asked advice, made two calves of gold and said to the people it is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem.

00:22:30.750 --> 00:22:36.655
Here are your gods, o Israel, which brought you up from the land of Egypt, and he set up one in Bethel and the other he put in Dan.

00:22:36.655 --> 00:22:43.163
Now this thing became a sin, for the people went to worship before the one.

00:22:43.163 --> 00:22:47.454
As far as Dan, he made shrines in the high places and made priests from every class of people who were not of the sons of Levi.

00:22:47.454 --> 00:22:55.193
Jeroboam ordained a feast on the fifteenth day of the eighth month, like the feast that was in Judah, and offered sacrifices on the altar.

00:22:55.193 --> 00:23:01.730
So he did at Bethel, sacrificing to the calves he had made, and at Bethel he installed the priests of the high places which he had made.

00:23:01.730 --> 00:23:09.791
So he made offerings on the altar which he had made at Bethel on the 15th day of the eighth month in the months which he had devised in his own heart.

00:23:09.791 --> 00:23:14.953
And he ordained a feast for the children of Israel and offered sacrifices on the altar and burned incense.

00:23:15.435 --> 00:23:17.403
And that's not the only time there were golden calves.

00:23:17.403 --> 00:23:21.741
It was Exodus 32, when Moses was up on Mount Sinai and Aaron made a golden calf.

00:23:21.741 --> 00:23:29.145
So in this case, here and in Exodus 32, we don't have King Jeroboam and Aaron in Exodus saying you know what?

00:23:29.145 --> 00:23:31.372
Let's forget about the God of Abraham, isaac and Jacob.

00:23:31.372 --> 00:23:34.907
Let's turn our backs on Yahweh and turn to other gods.

00:23:34.907 --> 00:23:36.633
That's not what happened in either of these cases.

00:23:36.633 --> 00:23:41.343
In both cases, they said this is God, this is Yahweh, this is the God who brought you out of the land of Egypt.

00:23:41.343 --> 00:23:42.824
Let's just do it our own way.

00:23:44.244 --> 00:23:55.172
In both cases here in 1 Kings and also in Exodus 32, probably more so in Exodus 32, the form of worship that was being prescribed, the golden calf was something they were familiar with.

00:23:55.172 --> 00:23:59.875
Calf worship was prevalent in Egypt.

00:23:59.875 --> 00:24:06.565
Egypt, for 400 years, came into the world and they're saying Moses is not coming down from the mountain.

00:24:06.565 --> 00:24:07.528
We don't know what became of him.

00:24:07.528 --> 00:24:09.192
Aaron, make us a god.

00:24:09.192 --> 00:24:12.445
So we said okay, here is a representation of the true and living God.

00:24:12.445 --> 00:24:15.208
So he wasn't saying turn away from God.

00:24:15.208 --> 00:24:19.680
He was saying this is God, this is the one who brought you out of Egypt, and it's something they were familiar with.

00:24:20.260 --> 00:24:21.401
You're familiar with calf worship?

00:24:21.401 --> 00:24:25.523
Okay, well, we'll make a calf, literally the same thing that's being done in yoga.

00:24:25.523 --> 00:24:32.308
You're retaining the outward elements of the Hindu worship and just try to Christianize it.

00:24:32.308 --> 00:24:43.135
Okay, so we're going to go through the Virabhadrasana warrior poses and we're not going to offer this as worship to Virabhadra.

00:24:43.135 --> 00:24:45.218
We're going to offer it as worship to Jesus instead.

00:24:45.218 --> 00:24:51.346
Well, no, you're taking a golden calf and saying this is the God who brought you out of the land of Egypt.

00:24:51.346 --> 00:24:51.665
It's not.

00:24:51.665 --> 00:24:52.949
The yoga, is not worship of the Lord Jesus.

00:24:52.949 --> 00:24:53.932
You can't do that.

00:24:53.932 --> 00:24:57.951
You can't take the golden calf and say you know, this is the true God.

00:24:57.951 --> 00:24:58.712
No, it isn't.

00:24:59.441 --> 00:25:00.482
Yeah, I agree.

00:25:00.482 --> 00:25:08.294
What do you think about Christ alignment cards're like christian tarot cards or tarot.

00:25:08.434 --> 00:25:18.548
I believe it's tarot is the correct term the whole point of tarot cards is fortune telling, divination, um, and, by the way, it does seem to work.

00:25:18.548 --> 00:25:22.145
You know you mentioned dorian virtue, she, she and uh, the other ladies on that other podcast.

00:25:22.145 --> 00:25:22.907
They talk about that.

00:25:22.907 --> 00:25:26.970
It works, same way that you know psychic, so-called gifts work.

00:25:26.970 --> 00:25:29.909
You know there's a demonic realm out there that can feed us information.

00:25:29.909 --> 00:25:41.086
But to take a tool of divination and divination and it got a fortune telling is absolutely, without question, denounced as an absolute abomination in the sight of God, something that angers him.

00:25:41.086 --> 00:25:48.673
To take that practice and to try to Christianize it, try to put Christian symbols on these cards, I mean that's like adding insult to injury.

00:25:48.673 --> 00:25:49.674
I think it's worse.

00:25:49.674 --> 00:26:02.132
I think Christian tarot cards are probably worse than the non-Christian ones You're going to try to involve, you're going to try to wrap Jesus up in this somehow, in this evil fortune-telling divination.

00:26:02.132 --> 00:26:03.354
It's horrible.

00:26:03.515 --> 00:26:15.594
Yeah, divination, it's horrible, yeah, and I don't know if the person who came up with it is affiliated with Bethel or Hillsong, but I know Bethel, I believe, has something to do with these cards.

00:26:15.594 --> 00:26:36.564
I don't see how any Christian who's got their head on straight, who's focused on God and has their Bible open all the time and knows the word, can look at these things and not say something for one, and maybe even be involved or just dismiss it or say, oh, what's the problem?

00:26:36.564 --> 00:26:37.406
What's the harm?

00:26:37.406 --> 00:26:45.208
They're trying to help people, but you're not helping people if, like you said, divination is an abomination.

00:26:45.208 --> 00:26:47.913
The Bible clearly says do not do this.

00:26:48.299 --> 00:26:51.109
So if you are doing it, guess what you're doing.

00:26:51.109 --> 00:26:52.243
You're doing what, james?

00:26:52.243 --> 00:26:53.048
What is it?

00:26:53.048 --> 00:26:54.285
One, not one.

00:26:54.285 --> 00:26:59.403
I don't remember specifically where it is, but it is one of my favorite verses, james, I think it's.

00:26:59.403 --> 00:27:01.690
I want to say 417, but I could be wrong.

00:27:01.690 --> 00:27:03.365
You might know once I say it.

00:27:03.365 --> 00:27:09.247
James says if you know what you ought to do and you don't do it, you're sinning.

00:27:09.247 --> 00:27:11.172
I believe it's James 4, 17.

00:27:11.172 --> 00:27:12.015
I could be wrong.

00:27:12.355 --> 00:27:14.280
I'm not sure I'm familiar with the verse.

00:27:14.280 --> 00:27:14.823
Yeah.

00:27:15.202 --> 00:27:16.767
Yeah, but it's that's.

00:27:16.767 --> 00:27:18.369
That's plain as day.

00:27:18.369 --> 00:27:25.930
You're not supposed to do divination, but you're doing divination the Jesus way, oh, noesus way.

00:27:25.930 --> 00:27:31.964
There's no jesus way to do what he told you not to do yeah, no, I oh yeah amen.

00:27:32.645 --> 00:27:43.801
Um, like I said, I think it's almost worse yeah, yeah, it is because you're leading other people astray, because then they think that that's okay, that it's not real demon worship, it's.

00:27:43.801 --> 00:27:45.384
It's okay, it's jesus.

00:27:45.384 --> 00:27:57.497
It's like what I was saying when I did my series on worship music and how we need to be careful on what our worship music is saying too and the values that are in that during season two.

00:27:57.497 --> 00:27:59.847
If you haven't listened to it, you should go listen to it.

00:28:00.381 --> 00:28:01.105
I haven't, but I will.

00:28:01.184 --> 00:28:02.299
Example yeah.

00:28:02.299 --> 00:28:03.040
Yeah, it's like.

00:28:03.040 --> 00:28:12.807
This is a perfect example of you can't always just trust just because someone says it's Christian or I'm a Christian.

00:28:12.807 --> 00:28:14.489
You have to look at the fruit.

00:28:14.489 --> 00:28:18.111
You have to look at what they're promoting, whatever they call it.

00:28:18.111 --> 00:28:29.748
Where's the spiritual fruit that's leading to God's glory?

00:28:29.748 --> 00:28:35.797
It's non-existent, because you were flat out doing something he told you not to do.

00:28:35.977 --> 00:28:36.779
Right, right.

00:28:36.779 --> 00:28:46.791
Well, you mentioned Hillsong and Bethel Music and I haven't looked into them a whole lot, but enough to satisfy me that I think that there is something really dark there.

00:28:46.791 --> 00:28:52.512
In fact, I've seen what almost look like witchcraft rituals happening right on the stage sometimes.

00:28:52.512 --> 00:28:55.692
Yeah, yeah, stuff to be taken seriously.

00:28:55.692 --> 00:28:56.896
It shouldn't surprise us.

00:28:56.997 --> 00:28:59.005
The Lord Jesus said the church would be infiltrated.

00:28:59.005 --> 00:29:00.732
There will be wolves in sheep's clothing.

00:29:00.732 --> 00:29:04.285
In my ecclesiastical tradition they limit that to false teaching.

00:29:04.285 --> 00:29:07.192
Now, false teaching certainly is included in that.

00:29:07.192 --> 00:29:09.428
Wolves in sheep's clothing are often false teachers.

00:29:09.428 --> 00:29:14.311
But I believe that Satan is clever enough to introduce infiltration in other ways as well.

00:29:14.311 --> 00:29:17.990
I know one pastor who performed church in another state.

00:29:17.990 --> 00:29:21.671
I'm not going to say any names, but I believe he's a ritual attending Luciferian.

00:29:21.671 --> 00:29:26.365
He came to a church and shut down prayer, made all kinds of changes.

00:29:26.365 --> 00:29:29.926
That still teaches sound doctrine, but I'm not going to go into much detail.

00:29:29.926 --> 00:29:32.086
Infiltration happens, I guess, in a lot of different ways.

00:29:32.086 --> 00:29:32.808
I guess is my point.

00:29:32.808 --> 00:29:34.988
We have to be on a guard against that.

00:29:34.988 --> 00:29:39.329
That's what the Lord Jesus commanded that we do, anyway.

00:29:40.231 --> 00:29:40.952
Discernment.

00:29:40.952 --> 00:29:42.787
We need to be in the Word.

00:29:42.787 --> 00:29:47.342
If you aren't in the Word, you don't know what God's telling you.

00:29:47.342 --> 00:29:48.023
You don't know what he's saying.

00:29:48.023 --> 00:29:49.949
How are you going to know what the right things are?

00:29:49.949 --> 00:30:07.980
And if you're not going to listen to people who are in the word, who are sharing the truth, like us, like other podcasters who are doing the same thing warning people about yoga, about Christ alignment cards, angel cards, all these other things that seem like they're the good kind of magic, there is no good kind of magic.

00:30:08.421 --> 00:30:19.307
And for someone, especially a Christian, to tell you that, that you can redeem these things, they don't have their biblical facts correct and you should not be following them.

00:30:19.307 --> 00:30:22.309
You should not be listening or doing what they're doing.

00:30:22.309 --> 00:30:54.663
And if you are a young believer and you are listening to this podcast right now, I am telling you that if someone is telling you it's okay to do yoga, just call it prayer moves, or do prayer moves or all these other things, if you've come out of the new age and people are telling you to do these things, don't listen to them, because they don't have the spirit of God in them, because if they did, they would be reading their Bibles and they would know that they should not be doing these things, that there is no redeeming things that God has blatantly said do not do.

00:30:54.663 --> 00:30:56.328
They are abomination to me.

00:30:56.328 --> 00:31:02.690
So I am telling you to stay away from these practices and people who are trying to get you to do them.

00:31:04.304 --> 00:31:05.328
Well said, dear sister.

00:31:05.328 --> 00:31:07.220
Thank you, Very well said dear sister, thank you.

00:31:07.220 --> 00:31:08.566
Very well said, yeah.

00:31:08.839 --> 00:31:15.973
Well, there is so much more that could be said about these things, but we are sadly out of time.

00:31:15.973 --> 00:31:26.314
So, david, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing this with us and sharing your heart and your honesty, sharing the Bible with us.

00:31:26.314 --> 00:31:48.894
I mean, maybe people aren't in the word, but now they've heard the word, because you shared it boldly, and I pray that it would affect people in a good way and they would start turning from these practices before they get sucked into something that could ruin their lives, ruin their afterlife when they go to their final destination.

00:31:48.894 --> 00:31:51.808
So thank you for coming on and talking with me about this.

00:31:52.280 --> 00:31:59.431
Amen Thank you for having me, anna, and thank you for what you're doing and amen to what you said about getting in God's Word.

00:31:59.431 --> 00:32:06.269
Right now I'm reading six chapters a day and it takes me about half an hour a day, and that reads the Bible almost twice in a year.

00:32:06.269 --> 00:32:10.829
So it's not this insurmountable thing to read God's Word.

00:32:10.829 --> 00:32:13.282
Get into God's Word, read it, read it, read it, read it.

00:32:13.282 --> 00:32:15.431
Amen, yeah.

00:32:15.711 --> 00:32:16.233
Thank you.

00:32:16.895 --> 00:32:17.739
You're welcome, thank you.

David Libby Profile Photo

David Libby

Shining the light of the Gospel in dark places (Matthew 5:14 - 16)

Mine has been the story of a sinner saved by the grace of an awesome God, who has since dedicated his life to the service of Jesus Christ. When I was a much younger man I had no idea of the extent to which my sovereign God would put that commitment to the test.
For many years my wife and both daughters suffered intensely at the hands of an extremely painful and often debilitating chronic illness, and we were driven daily to the very brink of the breaking point. But through it all we have been refined like silver in a very hot furnace. Little did I know then how valuable those long, hard years would prove to be; it was in that boot camp where God prepared me for His work as a Christian apologist.
If there is a God who is both good and all-powerful, then how can there be so much evil and suffering in this world? Does God care? How could a perfect God have created so imperfect a world? How can we be sure that He even exists? Is it possible to really know Him?
The cliched answers that are most readily available are often satisfying only to people who have never truly suffered. It is in the fires of affliction that the hard answers to the hardest questions are refined.

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