Sept. 25, 2024
Spiritual Warfare and the Prodigal Child
What if your most fervent prayers seemed to go unanswered? In this heartfelt episode, we sit down with Jeff and Diana Seaman, pastors from Rocklin, California, to discuss their profound journey through the trials of having a prodigal child. Their story begins with the unexpected departure of their child from the faith, leading to an emotional upheaval that left them clinging to Christ for hope and strength. They share insights from their book, "Restore the Road Home: Encouragement for Parents of Prodigals," providing a beacon of support for parents facing similar heartaches. The Seamans remind us of the importance of community, prayer, and rejecting isolation in times of shame and despair.
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Chapters
00:00 - Finding Hope in Parenting Prodigals
07:54 - Navigating the Prodigal Child Journey
19:31 - Strength in Praying for Prodigals
28:53 - Renewing Strength Through Dwelling With God
Transcript
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Jeff and Diana Seaman are wonderful people going through a dark season of life.
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At the height of their spiritual career at church, one of their children shared that they were stepping away from the faith.
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Their world was shook to the core and through this new season of life, they have found hope and endurance in Christ.
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If you have a child who has stepped away from the faith, or you are the prodigal, you will love this episode and be so encouraged by their story.
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Be sure to share this episode with family and friends so they too can be blessed by the contents of this episode.
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Thank you, guys, for joining me on the podcast today.
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I'm very excited to have you for joining me on the podcast today.
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I'm very excited to have you, jeff and Diana, thank you.
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Thank you for having us Nice to be here.
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Yes, so we have an awesome connection because we're both from the same area.
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You guys are currently pastoring a church in Rockland, California.
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I'm very familiar with that area.
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In fact, I think I've been to the church way before you started pastoring.
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But I have been to the church before I remember and I'm just very familiar with that area.
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It's where I lived before I moved to Connecticut, so that was one of the main reasons why I wanted to have you guys on the podcast.
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It's like we have something in common that's so cool.
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Northern California, I it.
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Yeah, I definitely.
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Now that I live in Connecticut and have to go through all the humidity we have here, I appreciate the dry heat more than I did when I lived there.
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Yeah, although we were just complaining this morning about our sinuses and everything being so dried up from the heat and not being able to sleep because of that.
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So I guess I never had allergies until I moved to Connecticut.
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Then I started getting allergies.
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I was like this is so crazy.
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I was the only one in my family who never had them and then moved here and I'm still occasionally certain times of year.
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I'll get it mostly spring now, but it used to be really bad.
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Oh, why did I?
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move here.
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The other reason why I wanted to have you guys on is because your story resonates a lot with what I'm going through with my eldest, and that is having a prodigal child.
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So tell us what is the name of your book and why did you write it.
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So the name of the book is called Restore the Road Home Encouragement for Parents of Prodigals.
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We wrote it because, you know, in 2016, we had all three of our children going into ministry.
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I mean, they were, they loved the Lord, they were, they were to admissions trips, they were doing all the things.
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We really felt like we've cracked the code.
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Like this, we've got it Christian parenting.
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We got it down pat and one day, out of the blue, one of our children came over and told us that they were no longer going to follow Christ.
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It was absolutely like it knocked us to the ground.
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We had no idea anything like that would ever, ever happen to us.
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And I mean slowly, over months of thinking that this was just a temporary thing, it was caused by the stress of getting ready to graduate and different things like that.
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It actually seemed to be more lasting, longer than we thought.
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Then we started meeting so many other families that they just had the same thing happen and they didn't know what to do.
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They didn't know.
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Do we shun them?
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Do we argue with them?
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Every time we're in the room with them, what do we do?
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Then there was kind of this isolation of, well, nobody can know.
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Nobody can know that our family's not perfect.
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Nobody can know that we did have this perfect family but now we don't anymore, so to speak.
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One night we went to bed and we were just angry, angry at the enemy, angry at isolating parents because they had a prodigal, angry at the shame parents were feeling, angry at the hopelessness parents were feeling.
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We kind of gathered a group of our friends together and said, look, we can't do everything, but what we can do is we can pray, we can join together, we can pray for one another Over the years of that little group starting and then us just kind of learning how to navigate this.
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Over the years We've just talked and being in ministry and he worked for K-Love Radio for 15 years and as a pastor, taking phone calls from across the world, I'm hearing the same story over and over again my child's walked away from their faith.
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I feel like a total failure.
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I don't want anyone to know or I won't have anything to do with them now, I won't let them in the house or all these things.
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So we just decided to write a book about our experience.
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We're not perfect, we're not.
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We don't know it all.
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But we thought, if what we do know and what we have learned can help other parents going through the same thing, then let's write it down and get it out there.
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So that's our story.
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That's wonderful.
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It's definitely especially nowadays with the way culture's going.
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It's a very relevant book.
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Unfortunately, I mean I'm going through it right now with my oldest.
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She's 17.
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She doesn't live with me.
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She hasn't lived with me since she was probably about 14.
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She has lived with her dad for a year and then she came back to live with me.
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She went to go live with my dad and my stepmom in Tennessee.
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That's when she went through this.
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I don't want to be a Christian anymore.
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I want to live with my grandma in California.
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It's been hard to see how she's doing what she's doing, the transformation she's making.
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It's been hard on me doing what she's doing, the transformation she's making.
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It's been hard on me, but I have the peace that passes all understanding.
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I have that and I know that God's got her and he's going to take care of her.
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It's great that you guys wrote a book that has that encouragement.
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It's not like you guys are writing it as these scholars who have never been through this and they just know these things because they took the classes you guys have been there, done that are still going through it and you're still strong and you're able to help and show people that there is a light at the end of the tunnel.
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Even their child is still going through it.
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So I'm very thankful that you wrote this book.
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As soon as I read your profile on Podmatch I was like, yes, I have to have them on.
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I can totally relate.
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I need their guidance and wisdom.
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So how did you two persevere through the discouragement that you felt, and did it mess with your marriage, affect it in a good or a bad way?
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Well, what helped us really get through it is we realized that we're not alone.
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We immediately started a prayer group called Battle Cry.
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We got about seven, eight families together and every Wednesday night we started just sharing what's on our heart and sharing the pain we feel, the isolation we feel and sometimes the shame.
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We built a brigade, almost a big one.
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We were going it alone for a while and we said let's get people around us.
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That's where we really found encouragement.
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It's where we found strength.
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It's where we found it's okay to feel these feelings.
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We normalized it together.
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It actually even strengthened all of our all the couples in there, all of our marriage were now getting stronger.
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We're now on the same page and we had one common goal that was to fight for our children.
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And so that's how we've had some people ask has it affected your marriage?
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It actually made us stronger because now we have a common goal to go after.
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Every morning when we pray, we're always going after prayer for our children and other people's kids.
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It's actually even made it even stronger.
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But we do know couples that it's divided them.
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They say well, if you would have been so hard on them, she would never walk away from faith, and so when we meet with couples, we try to get them on the same page, and that's been a sweet spot for a lot of the couples that we've been working with.
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Right that you have a common enemy that you're going after.
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You're not going after each other, that you're banding together to go after your common enemy.
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That's the thief who comes to kill, steal and destroy and we talk about that in the book.
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That it can divide, it can divide husband and wife, but we talk about don't let it, because you're on the same page here.
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You're doing this together.
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You do have an enemy, but it's not each other.
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Yeah, that's exactly what Satan wants.
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He's trying to break down the family unit because if he can do that, then you know, then we're useless, especially because you guys were pastors, you're pastors.
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So if he can do that to your family and you can tear it apart, that's going to mess with the gospel being preached.
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That's going to make people do the whole.
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See, I knew church was bad.
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Look at these people.
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That's what Satan wants.
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So it's great that you guys didn't go down that road and that you have a ministry that is helping others not go down that road, because I mean, from the very beginning, Adam and Eve were blaming each other for what happened instead of taking ownership for their part in it.
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It's so easy just to blame anybody for anything.
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My kids are constantly blaming each other for things.
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It's like I saw what you did.
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Just own it and move on.
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Adults are just like kids grown up.
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It's like we do the same thing.
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It's so in our nature.
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It's sinful nature DNA yes, it's terrible.
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So how can a parent of a prodigal unconditionally love their child when they see the choices they're making, they know they're wrong, they don't condone, they don't affirm them.
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How are they supposed to love unconditionally through that?
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I think getting your eyes on the actual battle, that really does help.
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We love the quote to scripture we wrestle not against flesh and blood, and that's a true statement.
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And you watch your children walk away and you know they have truth inside their heart already.
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And I think sometimes we've got to be able to keep the spiritual eyes on the right target.
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The enemy loves just to come, especially if you're in ministry, loves to put a target on your children, and so I think when we go to war we even have a whole chapter on spiritual warfare and we stay in that realm we realize that if you look at your son or your daughter, there's something that's going after them.
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It may be, you know, the rebellious spirit.
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It may be the you know the hurt or wounds spirit that's in their life.
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We know that's what's behind that.
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So we try to keep our mind focused constantly and in our prayer times when we meet with other couples, we're always this is where the battle is.
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It's not them, it's the spirit that's working behind that, and that's probably the one for new believers.
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That might be hard for them to understand, that they have been discipled.
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But I think as we get a group together, the more.
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You have more support.
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You remind each other hey, remember the enemy's trying to work here.
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So let's keep our focus where our prayers need to be focused where.
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Remember your position in Christ.
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And so that's what we've really worked hard and that's why we really in the book.
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We felt a lot of parents don't know how to do that.
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What they do is they just take it out on their kids and they're just like well, now you're hurting me.
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Well, no, this is the enemy actually attacking.
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So in our book we wrote a whole bunch about the strategies of our enemy and warfare, but also our position in Christ and having a discerning eye to see what's really going on.
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Well, and that discernment comes.
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You have to be led by the Holy Spirit.
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You really really do.
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It's a tightrope walk and the only way you can navigate that tightrope and get your next step on each correct spot is if you're being led by the Holy Spirit.
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I mean we're constantly asking the Holy Spirit, you know, lead us in our interactions with our children.
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I mean, there have been times when I have felt the Holy Spirit.
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I wanted to go.
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You know, when our child first came to us and said you know, I'm no longer going to be a Christian, my first reaction was game on, game on arm, wrestle you right now, you know.
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And the Holy Spirit just say stand down.
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No, you're not going to do that, let me work.
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And that's hard to do, it's hard to keep your mouth shut.
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But then there have been times when I felt the Holy Spirit say all right, I want you to speak, I want you to share this with your child.
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And that's also scary because I've kind of been like oh well, I was ready to do that, you know, a couple of years ago, when you told me to stand.
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Now I'm, you know, now you're having me do it, and so we really are.
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Try to be led by the Holy Spirit, and that is that is staying in that.
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You know when Jesus said remain in me and you will bear much fruit.
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When we're just remaining in him and spending time with him, we learn to hear the Holy Spirit's voice.
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When we know we're following the Holy Spirit and he's saying don't, don't say anything about this right now, you can trust that.
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And then when he's saying I want you to be really brave and confront this right now, you can do it, you can speak up, knowing that it's in his timing, and that's really important.
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It's a hard thing to learn because our flesh either wants to go after them or our flesh wants to coddle and pacify them, and we just have to be led by the Holy Spirit to know exactly what to do in every moment.
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Somebody says we want to control it.
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Yeah, we want to be the parents we got to.
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Let the Holy Spirit do in every moment.
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Somebody says we want to control it.
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Yeah, we want to be the parents we got to let the Holy Spirit work in their life.
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Yeah, control was hard for me.
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I think the reason why it's been easier for me, in that I have such peace right now, is because my daughter hasn't really lived with me since she was 12.
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She wanted to go live with her dad when he lived in California.
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So that was hard for me.
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I didn't want to let her go because he's not the greatest person for her to be around.
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He's very toxic the way he talks to her.
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I knew it wasn't a good idea.
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Her reasons for leaving were terrible.
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She had no real reason to leave.
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So I was digging my heels in and telling God no, I don't want her to go.
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And it was inevitable that she was going to go.
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I needed to let go of how I felt about it.
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I had to physically let her go.
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I prayed and I said if I do this, you have to promise me that you are going to take care of her, because I'm no longer going to be able to.
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And I said I'm going to trust you that if you're telling me to let her go, that that means that you have your hand on her for however long she's gone.
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From that moment on, I just kind of you know took a backseat as mom, because when she came back to me a year later her dad sent her back home and that was right before COVID.
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So then she was with us during the COVID lockdown and everything, but I don't remember if it was that same year or whatever, but something happened and she ended up.
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It was a big issue within our family and she ended up having to move to Tennessee to go live with my parents.
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It made it a little easier to send her down there, one because it was absolutely necessary to do so, but also just because I had already let her go and given her to God.
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Plus, my dad and my stepmom are very godly people and I trusted that they were going to take care of her.
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They did the best they could.
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They realized they made some mistakes.
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You know.
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They didn't know what kind of music she was listening to and that kind of stuff, you know, and all of that in high school and everything.
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It just kind of set her off and she's a very strong-willed child and wants to do what she wants to do.
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She knew if she went to go live with her grandma in California her paternal grandma she'd get to do that and that's exactly where she is now that's exactly what she's doing.
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We still have connection, which is great, but it's hard on me because I've been in this.
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Do I just be a friend and occasionally give her some friendly godly advice?
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Because if I try to bring up God she gets mad and she says don't bring that up.
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But then there's other times where she'll call me mommy instead of my name or whatever you know, and she's very sweet to me.
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So it's like I don't know I'm in this weird position because she's still 17.
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She's still technically a child but with everything that went through I had to give up my parental rights to her.
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So technically I'm not legally her parent and she'll say that to me occasionally.
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But then I remind her.
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That's why you know that I love you is because I'm still caring about you.
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I'm still here for you.
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If you need me, I'm here.
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You know where to find me.
00:16:25.386 --> 00:16:29.682
I always make sure I tell her that she knows all the things about God.
00:16:29.682 --> 00:16:30.544
She knows.
00:16:30.544 --> 00:16:38.004
So it's like I don't tell her all the time and it's hard and she's so much an adult.
00:16:38.004 --> 00:16:42.595
So I mean it's great that you guys have adult experience.
00:16:42.595 --> 00:16:48.139
I will probably be reading your book because I don't know if I'm going to have to deal with that avenue.
00:16:48.461 --> 00:16:53.230
Well and you kind of raise a valid point about there are.
00:16:53.230 --> 00:16:58.267
You know, every parent's situation is so very different and every child is so very different.
00:16:58.267 --> 00:17:01.682
And we have the parable of the prodigal son.
00:17:01.682 --> 00:17:09.191
But it's connected to two other parables, the parable of the lost sheep and the parable of the lost coin, one of the things we talk about in the book.
00:17:09.191 --> 00:17:12.442
And this goes back to really being led by the Holy Spirit.
00:17:12.442 --> 00:17:16.151
The person takes different actions in each parable.
00:17:16.151 --> 00:17:24.786
So in the parable of the lost sheep, the shepherd leaves the 99 and stops at nothing going after to look for that sheep.
00:17:24.786 --> 00:17:33.346
In the parable of the lost coin, the woman stays in her home but searches and sweeps and looks under everything.
00:17:33.346 --> 00:17:41.571
But then in the parable of the lost son, the father just lets him go, just lets him go and waits and waits and waits.
00:17:42.461 --> 00:18:06.209
When you have something happen with your child, you really do have to let the Holy Spirit say it's time to go after you pull out all the stops in going after your child, or maybe this is a time when you just let go and that child needs to go through what that child needs to go through to ultimately come back.
00:18:06.209 --> 00:18:08.334
We kind of have said before.
00:18:08.334 --> 00:18:29.779
If it's going to take 10 steps in the wrong direction for our child to come back to Christ and we help push them from step eight to step nine even if that was, you know, we didn't do anything bad, but something we did help Then we're actually pushing them in the correct direction, even though we may not do that with our natural eyes.
00:18:29.819 --> 00:18:39.869
I think it's important that we remember sometimes, in those seasons where you know we could go argue or we could try to, you know, get in their face, we got to remember that your best posture is going to be your prayer.
00:18:39.869 --> 00:18:49.354
It has more power to outlive you, um, and you know, and within your situation, when your daughter's a different location, I mean, the holy spirit is still working.
00:18:49.354 --> 00:18:50.599
That's what we got to go back and remember.
00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:53.509
He's still working, he still loves, he still pursues.
00:18:53.509 --> 00:19:00.528
All those things are powered because we're praying for those situations and we're on our knees and we're going after, we're fasting for situations.
00:19:00.607 --> 00:19:03.393
If we identify a stronghold or something like that.
00:19:03.393 --> 00:19:06.906
That's a sweet place, like having peace about knowing God's got this.
00:19:06.906 --> 00:19:19.250
I can mess it up, I can come and or I can trust the power of the Holy Spirit in working through our prayers and that's really a nice sweet spot, knowing the power of prayer that's going to outlive you in wherever they're at.
00:19:19.250 --> 00:19:26.011
You know our daughter lives down in LA and so even though we're not there, the loving God, the loving Father, is still working.
00:19:26.011 --> 00:19:30.907
Even when our daughter can't see us and stuff like that, it's like, okay, drop those coals on her head.
00:19:31.220 --> 00:19:35.228
How long has she been a prodigal, if you don't mind me asking.
00:19:35.407 --> 00:19:36.490
Since 2016.
00:19:36.490 --> 00:19:37.432
Yeah, 2016.
00:19:37.432 --> 00:19:43.183
Hello yeah, she Since 2016.
00:19:43.183 --> 00:19:43.987
Yeah, 2016.
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