Is it Really All Up to Me?

Transcript

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What happens when you take your desire to know Jesus too far?

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I'm sure that sounds like a nonsensical question, because maybe you believe it isn't possible to take your love for Jesus too far.

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Still, today's guest, audrey Dutton, has an incredible story that will help you stretch your thinking and realize that perhaps any good thing can be taken too far.

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But first, friends, before we start this episode, if you have enjoyed this season four content so far, give the podcast a review, either on my website with the link in the show notes, or whatever platform you use to listen to the show.

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This helps the algorithm share the podcast so more people can be blessed by the content.

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Thank you so much.

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Now let's get to it Before the episode starts, make sure you follow the show so you never miss another episode.

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Hello, audrey, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

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Hi Anna, thanks for having me.

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What a blessing.

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All right, will you go ahead and give us an overview of who you are and what?

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you do, sure.

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So my name is Audrey Dutton and I am the host of the Eat Me, drink Me podcast.

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That is a play on words with Alice in Wonderland, but also communion, because Jesus said when we partake of him we will experience the kingdom of heaven.

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And so my podcast is all about following Holy Spirit, like Alice followed the white rabbit, but into Jesus's wonderland, where we get to rest in and explore everything that he has done, you know, everything that he has given us as being children of God.

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What all did Jesus accomplish on the cross and through his resurrection?

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So that's the focus of my podcast, and I'm really passionate about inner healing.

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I'm really passionate about helping people understand their identity in Christ and walking in that victory.

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Because before I was a Christian, I was an atheist, and I actually was, by technicalities, I was a satanic atheist, which means you don't really worship Satan.

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You basically just use Satan as a symbol of rebellion against societal constructs and religious constructs and all of that.

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And I was gothic, so that all just kind of played well together, even though I didn't believe he was a real person and I never believed Jesus was a real person.

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But then I met him in 2008.

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I was up in the mountains.

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I had just become a widow at 19.

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And I just was at the end of my rope and I was cussing God out.

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After I was letting out all these emotions, it went from me complaining about my life to talking to somebody and cussing them out.

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And it was just like what?

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And I heard God say if I'm not real, then why do you curse me?

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And that just shifted everything for the rest of my life.

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That was back in 2008.

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So it's been 16, 17 years now and I've just been passionately in love with Jesus this whole time and it'll never change, because he is my rock and he is my everything, and I love to help other people see that he really is everything.

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Like Colossians 1 says that all things are created by him and for him and through him.

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So it's this fun mystery to just play around in and get to be unveiled through that relationship.

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It's beautiful.

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I think we've all had moments where we just kind of want to yell at God and get mad at him, and he's got big enough shoulders to handle it, and that's what I love is he allows us that.

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And then he says what he has to say.

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It kind of reminds me of Jonah, you know.

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Says what he has to say.

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It kind of reminds me of Jonah, you know, sitting there pouting because God didn't destroy the city of Nineveh and God didn't just say you know, go to your room, you're being bad right now.

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He just kind of just let him have his pity party and then he lovingly corrected him and set him on the right path, or tried to.

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Jonah didn't receive it as well as you did.

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But I'm so glad that you did because you have a lot of wisdom to share, because I did hear you on the Refuge Freedom podcast with my friend Johnny and you have an amazing story.

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You've mentioned in that story that you had some instances where you got healed and you also got to help people come into their healings.

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So why don't you go ahead and share some of that with us?

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some examples yeah, well, I grew up hearing a lot about witchcraft and angelic encounters and poltergeist situations and just all these other supernatural things, but anything that was not Jesus related, though.

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I never heard a miracle associated with Jesus, and so I leaned more towards the occult, because that seemed like the only form of power that I ever saw, but I really didn't or heard about.

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Excuse me, I didn't actually ever see it.

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I knew people who supposedly saw it, but I never saw it myself, which is why I ended up an atheist, because I did really try to experience the supernatural realm.

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And then, after knowing Jesus, meeting him in those mountains, and when he said those few words to me, it was more than just the words.

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There was such a deep connection of how much he loved me and that he wasn't the one that did all of these evil things to me or the people that I loved.

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And then, after that, I started reading my Bible and reading about miracles and seeing that Jesus wasn't the religious person that I always assumed that he would have been, but it was the religious people that killed him and he was going around healing people.

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And then, when I started going to church, they talked about Holy Spirit and that when we have the baptism of the Holy Spirit, we are able and equipped to operate in the fruits of the Spirit, but also the gifts of the Spirit and healing.

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And so I started reading every book I could get my hands on of people who had ministries on healing, because to me that just seemed like the ultimate proof that, oh, this is true and I can prove to people this is true, because if somebody has a health issue and I pray for them and they get healed in the name of Jesus, then they can't deny that.

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And so I just went after that.

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But also I did experience a lot myself.

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Before I was a widow, I had been in the military and while I was in basic training I tore my Achilles tendon and after that I could not fully bend my ankle whenever I walked.

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It would really hurt, I couldn't run, especially.

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And a few months after loving Jesus and just spending time with Him where he was giving me these downloads of my identity and understanding the scriptures, one day I was at a worship service and I was just laying on the floor and laughter came over me and I'd never experienced that before.

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And then I heard Holy Spirit say just get up and run.

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And the first thing I'm thinking is I can't run and I just felt this unction to just get up and do it anyway.

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And so I did and I, like, ran around the pews in this church and other people started running and my foot was healed, like I didn't have any more pain in my foot after that.

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And so, like these little things where God was healing me, it really fueled that passion to know that I could heal other people and to show them the heart of God in that.

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So I saw my first big thing.

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That was, somebody else was, right after my church, prayed for us to get the filling of the Holy Spirit.

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Some people call it or baptized in the Holy Spirit and with the evidence of speaking in tongues is how we were taught about it.

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And after that moment they told us that we would be able to pray for the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons, do all these things.

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And the next day, me and my friend, we were exercising at her house and then we were cooling down and doing stretches.

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She suddenly starts screaming and she's on the floor and she can't move and she's begging me to help her.

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I have no idea what to do.

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And then suddenly I remember what I had just learned about.

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Oh, I can pray in the spirit, because I don't know what to pray right now.

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I am totally taken off guard.

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And so I just started praying in the spirit, and then I felt like I should put my hands over her back.

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I didn't actually touch her, I was just kind of gliding my hands up and down her back and she felt her spine go back into place and she had had scoliosis so bad that she had had multiple miscarriages.

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And so here I'm just praying over her, have no idea what I'm saying or doing, and her spine pops back into place and she gets up and tears just start streaming down her face because she can feel the difference in her hips that you know, because they had been shifted, and she runs upstairs.

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She had this huge mirror on her wall and she stood up there for probably 30 minutes just crying and looking at how straight her hips were and how straight her back was.

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And then after that she had kids, and now I think she has like three or four.

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So, yeah, I mean that really sucked me in.

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I want to know more of this and I started studying the teachings of Kenneth Hagin Sr.

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And I don't know just anybody really that walked in a lot of power.

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Yeah, I don't know just anybody really that walked in a lot of power.

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Yeah, I don't know how much you want me to?

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Yeah, keep going, okay.

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Yeah, I learned about Maria Woodworth Eder and I read her book and I learned about Todd White and watched the Finger of God movies.

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I don't know if you have heard of those.

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No, I've heard of Todd White through the stuff that I've been researching on if he's real or not, on what he does and stuff.

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But the Finger of God.

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It kind of sounds familiar but I know I haven't seen it.

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Okay, it came out a long time ago.

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And then the next one was, I think it was Furious Love, and then Father of Lights, and then Holy Ghost and Holy Ghost Reborn, and so the whole concept of those movies was can we capture Holy Spirit on the move and working in people's lives?

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They're pretty powerful, anyway.

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So I got absorbed into all of that, but I didn't realize that it became a part of my identity and I was living under this constant fear of needing to perform, because I had a fear that if miracles are not following me, if miracles are not happening as a result of my prayers, then I've been deceived somewhere along the line.

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Yeah, it just constantly plagued me with this fear that I've got to do it right and if somebody doesn't get healed, then I did something wrong.

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And it just created this really, really heavy burden on me and I didn't realize that it had become an idol To me.

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It was like this is what Christianity is, and all the other people that claim to be Christians really weren't Christians because they weren't walking in miracles.

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So I became very prideful and very self-righteous, but also just living under that constant fear, because that had become more of an identity to me than being a child of God, and it was taught a lot at my church too, so it wasn't like I did it on my own.

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It was really drilled into me that we need to go out, we need to evangelize, we need to heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons.

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We need to go out and we need to do these things, and if we're not doing that, then we are in rebellion to Jesus.

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I have heard that a lot of new age or those who have come out of the occult can easily get sucked into something like that because it's almost I don't want to say it's almost the same, but I guess I mean I'm not new age or anything, so I'm not speaking from experience but when you think about healings on demand and speaking in tongues and things like that, it kind of could sound a little like something that someone coming out of new age or occult might be interested in, because they're so hungry for something true and tangible and that's something familiar.

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The supernatural is something they're familiar with.

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So you could easily get sucked into that in the mentality.

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And I do believe that God still does miracles.

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I don't know if people have the gift of healing anymore like what they did back in biblical times, gift of healing anymore like what they did back in biblical times, but I do believe that God will use people to bring about his miracles and it's his Holy Spirit's power that's doing it, it's not us.

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So I always get annoyed when people bring it back to themselves and say I have the gift of this, I can do this, because that's not right.

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If God gave you the ability to help, be a help to someone like your friend.

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You were able to help If you were to just say, oh, that was me, that was totally me.

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I did this and, like you said, it became an identity.

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Which is a problem with the whole idea of a healing or deliverance ministry is when you start making it about yourself and about the gifts instead of the giver, the one who's doing all of this, and that is a danger and it's really sad when people get sucked in it to that degree that it's their identity and they feel, like you did, that I have to do this.

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If I don't, their blood is on my hands or I'm at fault if something happens to them.

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That is such a toxic idea and it's sad that you had to go through that, and I know there's others who feel the same that if they miss one, then what is that going to do for them, for their own heart?

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It's really sad and I've been there, not necessarily with the healing part of it, but just if I don't talk to somebody, is God going to be mad at me because I didn't share the gospel with them?

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I mean, you can get sucked into this from any angle, really into the whole.

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It's about me.

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I have to do this.

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We forget that it's not about us.

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God could do any of this without us.

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He doesn't need us.

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He wants us to be a part of it.

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So I'm glad you were able to realize that and to come out of it.

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So when did you have that revelation that it's not about you, you're not the one doing this, but that it's the Holy Spirit working through you?

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And how did you escape that mindset and get into a more healthier mindset?

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The link is in the show notes probably a year and a half, and then during that time I'm still reading scripture for the first time.

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And then I started to really dive into reading, like all the books, and not just scripture here, scripture there or chapter here and chapter.

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There I was reading them in context and I started to have these amazing, just beautiful encounters with the Lord that were very reminiscent of when I met him in the mountains Just very loving and very peace, giving no condemnation, which is what I had been living under for so long.

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And I started to.

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Holy Spirit would put me in these situations where, like, we had a 24 hour prayer room.

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It was one room and people took slots, so it wasn't a place where a bunch of people came in at one time, it was just people taking turns and shifts.

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And so I would take these really late night shifts because, you know, I'm 19, 20.

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And, yes, I would take like 2 am, 3 am, and I would just have these beautiful times with the Lord in there.

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But there were a few times where, as I'm like reading the scriptures and I see God speaking to me about my identity, what my identity really is based in, which is Jesus and what he has done for me and who he says I am not based on, these works and these performances and all of that, he started to put me in these situations where I wasn't the one going out looking for these situations, they would just happen.

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So, like me going to a two in the morning prayer slot, there's a drunken woman wandering barefoot in the middle of the street and waves me down and I pull over to make sure she's okay.

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She's just not making any sense.

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Her words are slurred and she needs a ride home.

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So I put her in my car and I'm like, okay, I can't make it to the prayer appointment.

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I'm taking this woman home, I'm going to pray for her.

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And so I get to pray for her.

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I literally see her sober up and she's able to tell me how to get to her apartment.

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We get there and I just was blessing her body and the Lord was just speaking his heart about her to me.

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So I was able to just tell her how God sees her and she's just crying and she just really felt seen by God and that was kingdom.

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You know, that was God's heart.

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And but then after that appointment yeah, exactly A divine appointment that I wasn't like, ok, I'm going to go out and find somebody to tell about Jesus, because I have to, it was so beautiful.

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But then my church really started giving me a lot of backlash.

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They didn't like that I did that and they started to believe that I was being deceived and that I was going down this slippery slope of deception.

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But these things just kept happening.

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And when I was at home reading my Bible and I would leave, these amazing divine appointments would happen and I would feel so much peace, so much joy, so much destiny, so much freedom.

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And then I would go to my church and I would always end up feeling extremely condemned, very heavy, like the weight of the world was on my shoulders.

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And so somewhere in there, holy Spirit revealed to me that they were operating in a form of witchcraft and that a lot of these charismatic ministries that are big on deliverance ministry and healing ministries, a lot of witchcraft in that, because even biblically witchcraft is manipulation.

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And then there was that guy that the apostles prayed for and he saw Holy Spirit moving in their midst and he wanted to buy the power of the Holy Spirit, simon.

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And so we're often not very different than that in ministry wise because that's their bread and butter is performing to make sure everybody knows that they are a man or a woman of God.

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And they've got the proof and they have that support.

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And I'm not saying everybody feels that way or everybody operates that way.

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I have met some amazing people who really do have a genuine heart just to see the kingdom of heaven infiltrate people's lives and to bless people.

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And they don't have that ulterior motive Like if you come to my church, great, if you don't, great, I'm in this because of Jesus, and so they really do trust the Lord with all of that.

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But where I was and I've seen happen so many times is it is kind of like a form of witchcraft in a way.

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You try to manipulate people with their teachings to get them to give.

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I was personally taught that if you don't tithe then you're under a curse and therefore you're putting a curse on the entire congregation.

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So yeah, so Holy Spirit just kind of led me into that revelation that, oh my gosh, like I'm trying to manipulate God, like I'm trying to make sure that I do all the right things to get God to show up, and I just felt so grieved by that.

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And then I actually had these teachings that were downloaded onto my iPod and my computer that I didn't even put on there, and they were all about kingdom, living full of grace and identity.

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And then A friend that I had met at this church had moved away, gotten married, and then him and his wife moved back and they had all these teachings from other people who taught about healing, but from a very grace and identity perspective, and it really just shifted my whole way of thinking, which that's real repentance.

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The word repent is in the Greek, it's metanoia, and it means a change of the mind.

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So, yeah, the Lord took me on that journey of shifting how I was living my life and that, whatever I do, it has to be out of that confident rest of my relationship in Him as a child of God.

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First and foremost, we're no longer slaves, we are not servants.

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We are friends of God.

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We are children of God, and I had such a slave mentality, wow.

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That's very encouraging to see that you were able to escape that before it consumed you, because I can see how it can consume somebody.

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And it's really heartbreaking because, like you were saying, there's a lot of people who are good intentioned with it.

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They're not out to deceive on purpose.

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They may deceive themselves, they're not aware and, like I mentioned, a lot of people who were involved in witchcraft in New Age can easily get sucked into this in the wrong way, because it feels familiar, which should be a red flag, but sometimes it's not and it's so emotion-based and so feelings-based that it's hard to get out of, because you felt powerful when you were able to see people being healed at the hands of your prayers.

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That is an intoxicating feeling when you realize that you had something to do with something big that happened in someone's life.

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But to take yourself out of it and realize that it wasn't you, that it was God, is not something I think us humans are able to do easily, because we are selfish creatures and it's all about us.

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We have to die to self daily.

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We have to take up our cross and follow Jesus, and I'm encouraged that you were able to find a healthy way back to God and your friends helping you.

00:23:04.942 --> 00:23:05.743
That was great.

00:23:05.930 --> 00:23:14.970
Divine appointments are so important and when we're constantly going out and trying to look for it, I feel like we miss those divine appointments.

00:23:14.970 --> 00:23:22.615
Because we're trying to make our own agendas, our own calendars and make our own appointments instead of allowing God to do it.

00:23:22.615 --> 00:23:28.536
Because we aren't the ones who change people's hearts, we aren't the ones who heal, we aren't the ones who deliver.

00:23:28.536 --> 00:23:30.902
That's Jesus, that's his power.

00:23:30.902 --> 00:23:33.154
He has that decision to make.

00:23:33.154 --> 00:23:35.582
Is this person going to be healed or not?

00:23:35.582 --> 00:23:38.138
Is this person going to be delivered or not?

00:23:38.138 --> 00:23:39.575
That's not up to us.

00:23:39.575 --> 00:23:45.963
We can schedule the appointment all we want, but the end result is not ours to make happen.

00:23:45.963 --> 00:23:47.192
And I'm just.

00:23:47.192 --> 00:23:48.757
I'm in awe by your story.

00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:51.134
Thanks, I'm glad that it blessed you.

00:23:51.134 --> 00:23:57.199
Yeah, jesus is so good and he's so faithful and he really does love our hearts and a lot of those things.

00:23:57.199 --> 00:23:59.247
It can really cause a lot of trauma.

00:23:59.247 --> 00:24:07.932
It can really cause a lot of mental health issues as well, and Holy Spirit brings us peace and Holy Spirit is our comforter.

00:24:07.971 --> 00:24:14.981
Scripture literally says that we are not under condemnation, and yet there's a lot of people who love Jesus because they know that he's real, but they are living under condemnation.

00:24:15.001 --> 00:24:23.763
And yet there's a lot of people who love Jesus because they know that he's real, but they are living under condemnation and fear, and that's not what he wants for us.

00:24:23.763 --> 00:24:26.375
That's not what he has for us, and scriptures make it clear.

00:24:26.375 --> 00:24:29.570
What he has for us is that he died on that cross.

00:24:29.570 --> 00:24:33.057
He came and lived life as us and for us.

00:24:33.057 --> 00:24:44.140
He's the vicarious man, basically, and he experienced everything that anyone could ever experience so that we can enter into that union with him and receive our healing.

00:24:44.871 --> 00:25:11.403
But the best times that I have personally been healed, or people that I have since coming into this, other people that I've seen that have been healed it was through letting them know that they have their own personal, intimate relationship with Jesus, that they are not separated from God and that they can talk to Holy Spirit, they can hear God for themselves and they can get alone in that place with the Lord and see the fruit of the scriptures in their life.

00:25:11.403 --> 00:25:19.174
And it should never be about a work or trying to earn salvation or trying to keep it, because we can't.

00:25:20.517 --> 00:25:22.000
We're in a family.

00:25:22.381 --> 00:25:29.721
My kids don't need to live in fear of me kicking them out of the house one day or me turning my back on them one day.

00:25:29.721 --> 00:25:47.260
They are my children and I unconditionally love them no matter what, and it's my job to help them know how much they're loved and to help them figure out who they are and even some of those things for me to instill into them who they are as a human being and as a child of God.

00:25:47.260 --> 00:25:58.553
And so there's so much within a healthy family dynamic that can be just a very minute reflection of what it's like to be in that family of God really.

00:25:58.874 --> 00:26:07.220
And to think about the church that you were talking about, the one called Deliverance, and how it always made you feel going there.

00:26:07.220 --> 00:26:18.196
That breaks my heart, because I know that is not the only church where people are feeling condemned when they walk in and feeling like they don't measure up.

00:26:18.196 --> 00:26:20.326
I know there's many churches that are like that.

00:26:20.326 --> 00:26:26.631
I've been to a few where I felt the same way and it's heartbreaking, because that's not the church that we're supposed to be.

00:26:26.631 --> 00:26:32.042
That's not the church from the Bible and somewhere along the lines we missed it.

00:26:32.042 --> 00:26:36.732
We pushed God aside and said, no, we got this, we're good, we can do this.

00:26:36.732 --> 00:26:42.718
And we forgot that God is our everything and we can't do anything apart from him.

00:26:42.718 --> 00:27:02.304
And because of that we are leading people astray, we are breaking their hearts, we're cracking their foundations, we are messing with their faith and, like you said, it's a mental health issue as well, because I mean just think of the word of faith, movement, healing, deliverance.

00:27:02.304 --> 00:27:08.792
If you aren't being delivered, if you aren't being healed, if your prayers aren't being answered, maybe you don't have enough faith.

00:27:08.792 --> 00:27:14.544
That is such a mind meld, that is such a gaslighting.

00:27:14.544 --> 00:27:22.118
It's wrong and it's unhealthy, and that person is constantly living in the well, when have I measured up?

00:27:22.118 --> 00:27:24.324
When is enough faith enough?

00:27:24.324 --> 00:27:37.352
And if you look at some of the people in the Bible, they might not even have been considered Christian or even to have any sort of faith, but God would still heal them, or he'd still talk to them at the very least.

00:27:37.352 --> 00:27:42.182
If he didn't heal them, he still interacted with them with love and compassion.

00:27:42.182 --> 00:27:44.413
And we, the church, have messed up.

00:27:44.413 --> 00:27:50.131
Not everybody, but there are certain parts of it that have missed the script.

00:27:50.131 --> 00:28:01.997
They've gotten it wrong and because of that it's messing with people's minds and hearts and leading people away from the true Christ and from true faith, and it's just making a walk away from the faith.

00:28:02.336 --> 00:28:11.801
I mean part of your story you were talking about how people I think it was your grandparents who called you Satan's child because you wore black nail polish black nail polish.

00:28:11.801 --> 00:28:14.824
I wore black nail polish and I've been a Christian since I was 12.

00:28:14.824 --> 00:28:19.727
I was like that's so sad that that kind of a thing happened.

00:28:19.727 --> 00:28:31.012
But I know, when I was a young adult and a child, my grandpa would call me the good one, and that is such a high mantle that you cannot live up to.

00:28:31.012 --> 00:28:33.257
What does good mean in that person's eyes.

00:28:33.257 --> 00:28:37.104
What do I have to do to stay in that spot?

00:28:37.104 --> 00:28:39.316
You felt that way with your works.

00:28:39.316 --> 00:28:41.002
I have to continue doing this.

00:28:41.002 --> 00:28:44.713
If I don't, what's going to happen with my relationship with God?

00:28:45.214 --> 00:28:55.561
And that is such a toxic, unhealthy way to live and I'm glad that you were able to escape and with your podcast, you're able to help others, and that is huge.

00:28:55.561 --> 00:29:00.439
That is definitely a need, and I love the name of your podcast, by the way.

00:29:00.439 --> 00:29:09.329
It's very cool and as soon as you said it, I was like, oh, that's really cool and it's biblical too, which is awesome.

00:29:09.329 --> 00:29:12.058
I mean, I just mind blow.

00:29:14.590 --> 00:29:21.156
That's awesome, yeah, and I interview other people and they share their stories of coming out of toxic religion.

00:29:21.156 --> 00:29:24.451
It's not always about that, but oftentimes that's a part of their journey.

00:29:24.451 --> 00:29:41.261
Really, I just ask them to share their faith journey of how they've come to just see God as good and they've come to see themselves in this healthy identity in Christ, and so there's mostly it's interviews where people are sharing their story, like how I'm sharing with you today.

00:29:41.471 --> 00:29:54.615
Yeah, and I'm pretty sure there's a lot of stories out there, a lot of people who are finally able to come out of their shells and be able to share their stories, because maybe they thought they were alone.

00:29:55.238 --> 00:30:10.017
And the more that people share their, to share their stories because maybe they thought they were alone, and the more that people share their experiences, their stories and let them know that they're not alone, I think that's how a lot more people are going to heal and they're going to find true Christ and find a real, healthy relationship with the Trinity.

00:30:10.017 --> 00:30:25.413
Because there's so many unhealthy ways you can explore that, but we need the healthy way and I thank you so much for coming on the podcast today sharing your story and for your podcast.

00:30:25.413 --> 00:30:35.479
I pray that God continues to use it for his glory and that more people's hearts and minds are able to be changed and transformed, because we need that.

00:30:35.479 --> 00:30:48.085
This world is broken, it's hurting, it's needing truth now more than ever, and there's too many people out there shouting non-truths and not quite enough people shouting the truth.

00:30:48.085 --> 00:30:53.796
So I thank you for shouting the truth, thank you, I appreciate that, and I appreciate all that you're doing too.

00:30:54.250 --> 00:30:56.615
We need real conversations.

00:30:56.916 --> 00:30:58.381
Yes exactly.

00:30:58.662 --> 00:31:09.532
It's got a very special place because Jesus is very vulnerable, wants us to be vulnerable, and Holy Spirit can be there to help us process those emotions and all that we've been through.

00:31:09.532 --> 00:31:11.916
So this is a beautiful platform as well.

00:31:11.916 --> 00:31:13.240
Thank you, anna, thank you.

Is it Really All Up to Me?

Audrey Dutton

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Is it Really All Up to Me?