Empowering Women Through Stories of Resilience

Transcript

WEBVTT

00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:03.830
Michelle Saunders Gutsch is a soft-spoken powerhouse.

00:00:03.830 --> 00:00:08.772
She has been through the ringer, having escaped from years in a religious cult.

00:00:08.772 --> 00:00:19.292
Listen to her story of how she came to be involved in said cult, how her family managed to escape and how she has grown in her faith and been able to heal since that time.

00:00:19.292 --> 00:00:39.920
This episode is powerful but could be triggering for some, so keep that in mind Before the episode starts.

00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:41.344
Make sure you follow the show so you never miss another episode.

00:00:41.344 --> 00:00:48.259
Michelle, thank you so much for coming on today to talk about this wonderful and also scary topic.

00:00:48.259 --> 00:00:50.399
It's definitely something that's necessary.

00:00:50.399 --> 00:00:52.463
The whole idea of a cult.

00:00:52.463 --> 00:00:57.134
A lot of people use that word, but I'm not really sure they know what it means.

00:00:57.134 --> 00:01:08.400
And before you get into your actual story, will you please share with us the definition of a cult for those who may not be familiar?

00:01:08.701 --> 00:01:18.305
Well, I can't without going back and looking in terms of the different definitions out there of cult.

00:01:18.305 --> 00:01:59.912
Wikipedia probably has something, webster, all of that but I can tell you that there is a distinguishable difference between an occult like witchcraft which you could, if you wanted, to say, witches can be cultish or a cult, which there are more than what people really know of these cults, and I would say that the one thing that really defines cult is control, very much control, leader control.

00:01:59.912 --> 00:02:06.010
There is agenda, and agenda that's not where God is at the center.

00:02:06.010 --> 00:02:49.721
Okay, it's an agenda that is driven by the leader, and there could be a lot of arguments out there about Mormonism and people that are also in the Jehovah Witness faith, and some people could say that they would consider those groups cult because their leaders are all about trying to get people to be controlled into one truth, one way of thinking and living, and also there's a separation from others Others.

00:02:49.721 --> 00:02:56.473
There's not unity, and so I can say that that is without ever.

00:02:56.473 --> 00:02:57.193
It's kind of a.

00:02:57.193 --> 00:02:57.699
It's an.

00:02:57.900 --> 00:03:19.056
Actually a very excellent question, but if you look up cult in the dictionary, but if you look up cult in the dictionary according to definitions from Oxford languages, you will find that they call it a system of religious, I would say devotion directed toward a particular figure or object.

00:03:19.056 --> 00:03:34.873
Some could call it a relatively small group of people that have beliefs or practices regarded as strange or sinister, maybe a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.

00:03:34.873 --> 00:03:37.645
So I mean that's kind of in alignment.

00:03:37.645 --> 00:03:51.996
Now Wikipedia, as I said, they'll say it's a lay term for a group perceived as requiring unwavering devotion to a set of beliefs and practices which are considered defiant outside the norms of society.

00:03:51.996 --> 00:04:02.235
So all those collectively and what I shared from you know just my own, I think I'm hoping will give your listeners kind of an understanding.

00:04:02.819 --> 00:04:04.608
People like to throw words out.

00:04:04.608 --> 00:04:12.603
I'm realizing that a lot, and a lot of times we don't know what they mean, we just throw them out, and that is one of them that gets thrown out.

00:04:12.603 --> 00:04:14.891
People say that sometimes about our church.

00:04:14.891 --> 00:04:17.841
But we point to Jesus, we point to the Bible.

00:04:17.841 --> 00:04:24.906
It's growing because we're sharing the love of Jesus, we're sharing the true gospel and people want that, they crave that.

00:04:24.906 --> 00:04:25.961
It's why it's growing.

00:04:25.961 --> 00:04:32.961
It's not a secluded cult, but people will say that, and mostly everyone who says it has not even been there.

00:04:32.961 --> 00:04:35.266
It's like well, how do you know?

00:04:35.266 --> 00:04:37.853
You have not been anyone near the place.

00:04:37.853 --> 00:04:40.225
Go first and then make your assumptions.

00:04:40.225 --> 00:04:41.870
But that's just what we do.

00:04:41.870 --> 00:04:55.630
We make assumptions, we don't think before we speak, we don't know definitions or take the time, and it doesn't help that nowadays people are just kind of changing definitions all the time anyways for things what is a woman?

00:04:55.630 --> 00:04:56.391
What is a man?

00:04:56.391 --> 00:04:56.711
A?

00:04:56.771 --> 00:04:58.213
baby, all these things.

00:04:58.233 --> 00:05:03.338
They're just throwing words out so you never know what it's actually going to mean.

00:05:03.338 --> 00:05:06.704
They could change the definition for cult tomorrow, for all we know.

00:05:06.704 --> 00:05:09.089
Hopefully not, but they probably will.

00:05:09.089 --> 00:05:11.903
They probably have, they've probably updated it and we just didn't know.

00:05:12.285 --> 00:05:17.543
Well, yeah, it's a great question and I think you need to because it definitely.

00:05:17.543 --> 00:05:27.112
I think when you think of, like I said, a cult, they're supernatural, magical, that, that it is.

00:05:27.112 --> 00:05:29.394
You know a difference.

00:05:29.394 --> 00:05:38.571
Yeah, yeah, although some cults could bring in powers like that, but that's not typically the center.

00:05:38.711 --> 00:05:39.653
Yeah, all right.

00:05:39.653 --> 00:05:48.074
Well, why don't you go ahead and share your story of how you got into a cult and then share how you came out of it?

00:05:48.074 --> 00:05:49.565
It's a big loaded question.

00:05:50.000 --> 00:05:59.495
I'm writing a book called my Altered Stories, a healing memoir, my journey as a childhood cult survivor back to faith in God.

00:05:59.495 --> 00:06:10.807
So there will be more details coming out of my book, and to do this I'll do it as best as I can for your listeners too, without going into too much detail.

00:06:10.807 --> 00:06:33.392
But I will say that I was in this cult because my mother made the choice to be part of it and I was a child, and I was her child and I was brought into it along with my siblings at that time, and so I didn't have a choice in whether I attended or was involved.

00:06:33.392 --> 00:06:37.471
It was something that I had, that was imposed on me.

00:06:37.471 --> 00:06:50.148
I'm not saying I'm the victim, but I am saying that the responsibility for why I got there was because my mom, who was the parent that got me involved, was instrumental in getting me there.

00:06:50.148 --> 00:07:03.295
But it was through her relationship with friends that were part of this home church group that the cult at that time was introduced.

00:07:03.295 --> 00:07:06.548
But it was not really a cult at that time.

00:07:06.548 --> 00:07:32.572
It was a home group church of Christians with a leader who'd been thrown out of the church and he was, I think, bringing his belief system out to others through connection and it was people that knew him and then they had friends, and then they had friends and it kind of grew systemically that way.

00:07:32.572 --> 00:08:03.086
And so I started attending the home church with my mom, my siblings that were there at that time when it was started in Rapid City, south Dakota, and then from there my parents moved because my dad was in the Air Force and he had been assigned to go overseas and at that time my mom and dad made the choice.

00:08:03.086 --> 00:08:40.048
My mom and us kids were to stay in the United States but my mom wanted to relocate to where this I will call him cult leader moved and a lot of other of the Christians that were part of this group also relocated, were part of this group, also relocated, and that's kind of how we continued our connection through just our continued relationships.

00:08:40.129 --> 00:08:42.691
And then I was part of that.

00:08:42.691 --> 00:08:48.615
I started at the age of seven and we were exposed.

00:08:48.615 --> 00:09:06.811
I was exposed to this church group that became very oppressive, very controlling, very isolating, very legalistic I mean all of the things that you would find typical in these cults that are out there.

00:09:06.811 --> 00:09:28.054
And then kids were starting to, I would say, change their loyalty from their parents to the cult theater and my dad, because he was overseas, he wasn't as aware because back then there was not the technology you have now.

00:09:28.054 --> 00:09:29.221
You don't have.

00:09:29.221 --> 00:10:12.121
You know you're communicating through letters or phone and my dad just wasn't aware of how in-depth this grew, how the control and all of that, how it was affecting my mom and all of that how it was affecting my mom, how it's affecting our family, and so that progressed and it got to a place of where, when this man was I think I think where he was because I had the mind of a child I think where he was was he thought in his mind, because I do believe he had mental health problems and a lot of people that were brought into this group.

00:10:12.462 --> 00:10:15.471
They didn't have a lot of mental strength, they didn't know their truth.

00:10:15.471 --> 00:10:19.684
They're very gullible, vulnerable, emotionally based.

00:10:19.684 --> 00:10:43.707
I think he started really taking advantage of people's allegiance and loyalty and at that time, back then, there was a lot of this psycho psychology where people were doing weird things like these tests with kids and no clothes on and different.

00:10:43.707 --> 00:11:22.403
I mean, I think, where he was coming from, when we ended up immersing ourselves, unfortunately, in some of what I would consider his I would call it more sexual assault, when he was starting to you know, bring in what, these Bible studies where people didn't have you know their clothing on.

00:11:22.403 --> 00:11:25.727
I think he was trying to equate that to you know, being raw in front of God, being authentic.

00:11:25.727 --> 00:11:28.191
You know, you know sin.

00:11:28.191 --> 00:11:38.105
You know I can't say for sure, but you only can put some kind of logic in your head around this and where you go.

00:11:38.105 --> 00:11:47.221
Oh my gosh, how could a person you know in our society think something like that wouldn't be exposed?

00:11:47.864 --> 00:11:48.063
Yeah.

00:11:48.509 --> 00:11:57.693
And I think, because I was the age I was, he knew he was teetering on, potentially because there were members coming and going.

00:11:57.693 --> 00:12:26.642
And then, I think, when this actually escalated, where families were being torn apart and you know, and people were starting to see that this was just not right, I think that's when there was some exposure to the press in Montana, and then that is when things were happening in our family too and my dad came back from being overseas.

00:12:26.642 --> 00:12:46.418
I mean, there was a series of things that transpired, but that was when, I think, my dad really realized and the courts that were involved and people's lives that were being destroyed as a result of this.

00:12:46.418 --> 00:13:12.817
I think that's when the light bulb went on and my mom and dad came to a point where my dad's like you got to leave or I'm going to take the kids, and so, anyway, that, thankfully, my dad, my mom, were able to go forward in their relationship and heal, and God opened doors for that.

00:13:13.177 --> 00:13:27.466
It took time because from the time, like I said, from seven to 12, I was involved and I had other friends within this cult, some that came, some that went and that helped, and I went to public school.

00:13:27.466 --> 00:13:42.359
They didn't make us go to a special school or anything and that helped me mentally to be able to continue to live my life with some kind of normalcy.

00:13:42.359 --> 00:14:01.072
But it was very hard on my self-esteem and it was very hard on me because I felt violated and there were just those kinds of things that a child in my age group should not have been exposed to.

00:14:01.072 --> 00:14:13.504
And my parents eventually did lose custody of my brother and they were very fortunate they didn't lose custody of me and I could have ended up in the foster system.

00:14:13.504 --> 00:14:15.547
I could have ended up being taken.

00:14:22.110 --> 00:14:43.004
My parents, my mom, could have been thrown in jail through some of my therapy and things that I had to deal with because I suppressed it and I didn't, you know, understand the trauma and I didn't understand all of really what had happened and the effect it had until later on in life.

00:14:43.783 --> 00:15:12.735
But I mean, thank God my mom came to the realization of everything and what had happened and the trauma it had caused on her family and we were able to work through that in our relationship and my parents were able to work through, although there was still lots of healing and it really destroyed our family unit at a very young age.

00:15:12.735 --> 00:15:14.839
But there's a lot to this.

00:15:14.839 --> 00:15:25.558
I'm kind of jumping around because I don't know your listeners that well and I don't know what faith they're coming from or all of that, but that's the highlight.

00:15:25.558 --> 00:15:45.142
I mean, we went from a location in South Dakota to a location in Wyoming, to a location in Billings, and followed this man and then we were eventually out of this cult, thank God, and I suppressed it and I wanted nothing to do with Christians.

00:15:45.664 --> 00:15:46.429
Yeah, I wanted to ask.

00:15:46.529 --> 00:15:48.378
That was the part that was hard.

00:15:49.793 --> 00:15:52.120
How did all that make you feel about Jesus?

00:15:52.120 --> 00:16:00.215
Who doesn't love free?

00:16:00.215 --> 00:16:01.500
I know I do.

00:16:01.500 --> 00:16:07.791
That's why I created a free seven-day devotional for those who want to go deeper with God.

00:16:07.791 --> 00:16:16.437
It's a short devotional full of encouragement, guidance and impactful Bible verses related to everyday struggles we all go through.

00:16:16.437 --> 00:16:27.543
I know you will love this devotional as much as I enjoyed writing it and since it's digital, you can do it anywhere anytime, perfect for the person always on the go.

00:16:27.543 --> 00:16:31.539
Get the free devotional when you sign up for my mailing list.

00:16:31.539 --> 00:16:33.376
The link is in the show notes.

00:16:33.931 --> 00:16:39.543
Well, I had a relationship with Jesus earlier on and I loved him so much.

00:16:39.543 --> 00:16:47.163
When I went through this experience, I was really confused.

00:16:47.163 --> 00:17:13.910
I was really confused about who Jesus was and I actually was sickened, you know, by people and people that were drawn to this kind of cult and people that were drawn that were not strong in their mind and belief systems.

00:17:13.910 --> 00:17:29.964
So I think the turnoff for me was anybody that showed any kind of weakness at all later on in life, because this man was so just controlling and he was not a very mentally healthy man.

00:17:29.964 --> 00:17:45.798
Anyway, you know, I could see how he was tearing down families and how his own family was messed up and how he tried to control and force his beliefs on other people and I didn't think Jesus was like that.

00:17:45.798 --> 00:17:47.671
You know I didn't.

00:17:48.231 --> 00:17:52.397
You know, I had a hard time.

00:17:52.397 --> 00:18:00.458
I really had a hard time with trust in relationships and trust in God, and did God really have my back?

00:18:00.458 --> 00:18:04.146
I mean, we got out of this cult, I was able to move forward.

00:18:04.146 --> 00:18:41.122
God blessed me in so many ways later in life and he also showed me how important it is to know his word and how important it is to be around sound people and lifestyle and all of that so that you could be on the right path, instead of being on a path that was destructive and chaotic and filled with fear and anxiety and just not the kind of freedom that we get right In Jesus Christ, the right freedom, the healthy freedom that you get.

00:18:41.122 --> 00:18:51.588
So I don't know if that's enough, but usually that gives people, I hope, some sense of kind of the story of what happened.

00:18:51.795 --> 00:18:56.118
It can probably be a triggering thing, especially for those who have been through that.

00:18:56.118 --> 00:19:08.451
It gives just enough of an overview where, if someone is in it right now, they might have that moment where the light bulb goes off and they realize that they're in it.

00:19:08.451 --> 00:19:16.817
Yeah, Then they can reach out to you for help you for help to get it on.

00:19:16.856 --> 00:19:18.019
Well, I have people that are doing that right now.

00:19:18.019 --> 00:19:22.917
But one thing I want to make sure your listeners are aware of it's like you got to be really careful not to normalize this kind of behavior.

00:19:22.917 --> 00:19:24.902
That's the thing.

00:19:24.902 --> 00:19:28.448
It's not normal to be like that.

00:19:28.448 --> 00:19:31.638
It's not well for one thing, it's not even godly.

00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:42.383
If you search the scriptures and you read the scriptures and Jesus was not that kind of that, wasn't his gospel.

00:19:42.383 --> 00:20:09.601
And so I think my mom came out of Catholicism or she was a Catholic converted to Christianity through the Billy Graham crusade, never really found a sound biblical church and then ended up off on a beaten path because she had friends there and she was looking for community and there she went, and that was years of her and other people I'm just not the only one.

00:20:09.601 --> 00:20:25.993
There were other families, other people that came and went and got the brunt of the unhealthy behaviors and that makes it tough, especially as kids.

00:20:25.993 --> 00:20:38.715
But I have to remind everyone I was a child and now I'm an adult, so I'm trying to bring the perspective of a child and I'm an adult, so I'm trying to bring the perspective of a child and I'm an adult, yeah.

00:20:39.016 --> 00:20:42.605
It's probably hard because as a child you trust your parents.

00:20:42.605 --> 00:20:45.981
You trust their judgment that they're going to do what's best for you.

00:20:45.981 --> 00:20:54.804
So when you see that they're either participating it or whatever, it just looks to you like okay, I can trust what they're saying.

00:20:54.804 --> 00:20:56.207
Obviously this is okay.

00:20:56.207 --> 00:20:58.711
Otherwise my mom or my dad wouldn't let me do it.

00:20:58.711 --> 00:21:06.496
But then as you get older, you start seeing things for yourself and you're like well, I don't feel like reading the Bible naked.

00:21:06.537 --> 00:21:09.063
I'm going through an awkward phase as a 12-year-old.

00:21:09.063 --> 00:21:10.707
That's not what I want to do.

00:21:10.707 --> 00:21:17.699
And then you get shamed for it and at some point you feel this is not okay and you start making those decisions.

00:21:17.699 --> 00:21:22.295
And then you look to your parents and say why aren't you protecting me now?

00:21:22.295 --> 00:21:45.615
This does not seem right and I'm glad that you were able to get out of it while you were still young and able to preserve what little innocence you may have had at that point that wasn't ripped from you, and that you were eventually able to come to a healthy love for the true Jesus Christ, who would never put you in that kind of a position.

00:21:45.615 --> 00:22:00.722
And I'm sorry that you had to go through this and went through a period of time that I think a lot of people go through who just believe that the church is a cult.

00:22:00.883 --> 00:22:02.547
They hate them for whatever reason.

00:22:02.547 --> 00:22:09.127
They hate God and it's usually associated with something that someone did to them in a religious manner.

00:22:09.127 --> 00:22:18.980
I think I have yet to hear somebody say a specific reason why they hate God, and it's related to God specifically why they hate him.

00:22:18.980 --> 00:22:21.665
It's always something to do with his.

00:22:21.665 --> 00:22:22.788
People did this.

00:22:22.788 --> 00:22:24.317
Again, we're flawed.

00:22:24.317 --> 00:22:25.019
We're people.

00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:26.182
We make mistakes.

00:22:26.182 --> 00:22:35.145
God is not like that, and it's heartbreaking to hear these stories of people walking away from the faith because of people.

00:22:35.145 --> 00:22:44.461
These stories of people walking away from the faith because of people well-intentioned, not well-intentioned, whatever it is and they're just leading people the wrong way and pushing people away from God.

00:22:44.780 --> 00:22:46.303
It affects a lot.

00:22:46.303 --> 00:22:52.538
I think the biggest thing for me was the relationship I had with my mom.

00:22:52.538 --> 00:23:16.987
I lost total respect for her and so there was no respect at all, and then she lost complete control of me after a certain age and then when my dad was back from serving and was more in the family because this happened, unfortunately, and I'm going to bring this military life is not always good.

00:23:16.987 --> 00:23:32.980
The things that happened, too was my dad going overseas, my dad having a military career and my mom being at the home and my dad not being involved and not being the spiritual leader and not as an you know.

00:23:32.980 --> 00:23:39.556
So there was that transpired leader and not as an you know.

00:23:39.556 --> 00:23:40.438
So there was that transpired you know.

00:23:40.438 --> 00:23:49.980
I just feel that that was instrumental too, and when my dad was really aware of what had really happened, then the damage had been done, and so that took a lot of time.

00:23:50.121 --> 00:23:56.373
By God's grace, by his mercy, I did see Jesus restore Okay, so that's a good thing.

00:23:56.373 --> 00:24:13.698
Jesus did restore our family, but it took a long time because I didn't really understand the trauma and everything until I went and met with the mental health counselor and then the story and sharing that and getting that out there.

00:24:13.698 --> 00:24:20.265
And then God brought me to Altered Stories Ministry, to launch the ministry and helping women, give them a voice, sharing.

00:24:20.265 --> 00:24:22.742
All of that was ordained.

00:24:22.742 --> 00:24:29.326
So what I went through, god has used it for good and I love that you're going to do more teaching.

00:24:29.326 --> 00:24:41.124
I think what's really important is that Christians understand their truth, understand the truth of the gospel, what God is all about, and that this is never someone else's agenda.

00:24:41.124 --> 00:24:42.807
Jesus is on the throne.

00:24:43.008 --> 00:24:43.528
Yeah, amen.

00:24:44.115 --> 00:25:01.827
He is on the throne, and so if you people want to put in their flesh, in their leading, and all their desires, so we could go on and on and on, talk more, and more and more, but I'm hoping that I could share just enough.

00:25:02.269 --> 00:25:03.873
Tell us about your ministry.

00:25:03.873 --> 00:25:06.842
You mentioned that you help women share their stories.

00:25:06.842 --> 00:25:14.240
So these would be women who have come out of cults or situations kind of similar to that.

00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:19.619
And are they just local stories that you have, or do you have them from all over the world?

00:25:19.819 --> 00:25:50.259
My ministry is a global mission and it is a ministry for women, for uniting women, bridging sisterhood and helping women, giving them a platform to share their God's stories of redemption and overcoming adversity transformational stories and they are stories of where God came in, situations changed and God healed them and brought them to where they are in their life today.

00:25:50.259 --> 00:25:52.964
So it's called Altered Stories Ministry.

00:25:52.964 --> 00:25:59.856
The story is altered and so we have women all over the world.

00:25:59.856 --> 00:26:07.289
I've put out 143 episodes and women have been Barbados, south Africa, estonia.

00:26:07.289 --> 00:26:11.500
I've got them in Europe, we got Iran, we got Pakistan, got India.

00:26:11.500 --> 00:26:13.065
Women from all over.

00:26:13.065 --> 00:26:26.462
But women are women and these stories are healing and they do bring healing to the woman that shares and even healing to those that hear this story, and so I believe God wanted me to start this ministry.

00:26:26.462 --> 00:26:38.596
It wasn't until later on in life that I felt the call, but that was after I shared and found the redemption and the healing and I saw that when I shared and told my story.

00:26:39.018 --> 00:26:45.979
There was healing and there was so much that came out of it but, more importantly, god was glorified through it.

00:26:45.979 --> 00:26:49.852
And he was and is glorified through the ministry.

00:26:49.852 --> 00:26:53.861
And we do blogs, we do luncheon events, workshops.

00:26:53.861 --> 00:27:06.726
I speak at retreats, I speak to women, helping them find the story inside of them or get to a place of being able to get through their trauma, to be able to move ahead into the calling God has.

00:27:08.175 --> 00:27:11.142
There's something special about sharing testimonies.

00:27:11.142 --> 00:27:13.968
That's why the Bible mentions it.

00:27:14.316 --> 00:27:18.357
There's a lot to it and, more importantly, it overcomes the enemy.

00:27:18.357 --> 00:27:39.380
The power of your testimony can overcome the enemy and I think women walk around wounded and hurt and fearful, and it's really a ministry to Christian women, but there's a lot of other women that listen, so it really is pre-evangelism and thank you for letting me share that, anna.

00:27:39.380 --> 00:27:46.659
So we're out there, wwwalteredstoriesorg, we're on all the social media, we're growing.

00:27:46.659 --> 00:27:52.939
God is blessing us with favor because we're building the kingdom of God through this power of the story.

00:27:52.939 --> 00:28:00.982
So that's the cool thing, and it wasn't until I was able to actually share mine, that healing began Nice.

00:28:01.443 --> 00:28:08.106
Well, I'm excited to read your book, and I'm sure there's going to be many others who would love to read your book as well.

00:28:08.106 --> 00:28:11.544
Is it out yet, or it's coming out soon?

00:28:11.784 --> 00:28:19.220
Well, I'm working with my publisher right now on trying to pull together a plan for the book is written.

00:28:19.220 --> 00:28:25.615
We're refining and trying to come up with a plan to get the book launched.

00:28:26.116 --> 00:28:28.740
Okay, yeah, I'm an author, so I get that.

00:28:28.842 --> 00:28:34.577
You know, yeah, I have a devotional that I actually wrote.

00:28:34.577 --> 00:28:35.441
That is out there.

00:28:35.441 --> 00:28:38.397
That highlights all my episodes.

00:28:38.397 --> 00:28:40.060
It's digital, you can get it.

00:28:40.060 --> 00:28:49.867
It's 52 weeks for a woman that might be interested or someone to hear all the top 52 episodes of all the stories and it does some reflection.

00:28:49.867 --> 00:28:52.902
But that's actually out there, but it's not an hard copy.

00:28:52.902 --> 00:28:54.567
That was something I did.

00:28:54.567 --> 00:28:57.519
That's actually out there but it's not an hard copy.

00:28:57.519 --> 00:28:58.181
That was something I did.

00:28:58.181 --> 00:28:59.503
And then this healing memoir book.

00:28:59.503 --> 00:29:08.326
I want that book to minister to those who've come out of trauma and hard things and there are more cults out there than what people realize.

00:29:08.326 --> 00:29:10.321
There's a lot of them out there.

00:29:10.914 --> 00:29:19.769
Yeah, we need to stay focused on the Word of God and understand what he's telling us in the Bible, and that will help us discern what is right and what is wrong.

00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:30.144
Yes, I agree.

00:29:30.144 --> 00:29:40.101
I agree ministry and your podcast and hopefully your book when it comes out, and I will put a link to that devotional that you mentioned.

00:29:40.101 --> 00:29:42.607
I'll put that in the show notes for anyone who wants that.

00:29:42.607 --> 00:29:43.895
Thank you, anna.

00:29:44.356 --> 00:29:45.480
This is a blessing.

00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:49.548
I love having honest conversations with other Christians.

00:29:49.855 --> 00:29:56.882
Yes, it's definitely not something that happens very often, but I'm hoping it's going to start becoming a trend because it's necessary.

00:29:57.242 --> 00:29:57.865
It really is.

00:29:58.015 --> 00:30:10.989
We've skirted issues for far too long and look where it's gotten us, so it's time to lace it up, pull our pants up all the way and stop being so comfortable.

00:30:11.670 --> 00:30:17.186
Yes, I mean it's not comfortable having conversations like this.

00:30:17.186 --> 00:30:20.680
I mean it's just not, but they need to be.

00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:24.122
We need to have them, those conversations are needed.

00:30:24.383 --> 00:30:30.468
Yeah, we're supposed to share the gospel and there's more way than just one way to do that.

00:30:30.468 --> 00:30:41.481
And this is definitely a way to do that, because we're helping people get away from the narrow, the wide path and we're trying to put them back on the narrow path.

00:30:41.583 --> 00:30:45.118
So that is right, absolutely I agree with you.

00:30:45.118 --> 00:30:47.221
Thank you for your support.

00:30:47.221 --> 00:30:50.579
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to share what I did.

00:30:50.579 --> 00:30:52.362
Share, yeah, no problem.

Empowering Women Through Stories of Resilience

Mischelle Saunders-Gottsch

Follow:

Support Small Church

Want to be a guest on the Show?

Recent Episodes

Related to this Episode

Empowering Women Through Stories of Resilience