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Can you believe it?
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This has been an amazing season.
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Hello everyone, I am Anna Murby, the host of Honest Christian Conversations.
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If you are tuning in for the first time, welcome.
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You have missed a dynamic season.
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I have had so many guests come on and talk about various issues within the Christian faith that are leading people astray, but I'm also having my mind blown with everything that I have learned.
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You are going to want to go back and listen to this whole season For those who have tuned in from the very beginning of season four.
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Thank you so much for sticking with it.
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I know some of this stuff has been hard to hear.
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I'm sure the chosen episode wasn't very exciting for you.
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If you don't know what that is because you haven't listened or you chose not to listen, you should go back and listen.
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Perhaps what I have to say may surprise you, but anyway, today's guest, beatty Carmichael, is an awesome person, such a Bible teacher.
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You can hear it in the way that he talks, the questions he asks and his knowledge of the idea of healing, deliverance and repentance Mind blow.
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I was in awe of everything he had to say and I was soaking it in and it gave me a deep love for repentance for the Bible and has opened my eyes to a new way to see the Bible.
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You are going to really enjoy this episode.
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Let's get into it Before the episode starts.
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Make sure you follow the show so you never miss another episode.
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Hello Beatty, thank you so much for coming on the podcast to have this really intense and awesome conversation with me.
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Thank you for being willing to answer the questions I have, but also to talk about your ministry work, which is really good.
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I've experienced it so I can attest to it.
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But thank you so much for coming on.
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The podcast Give our audience a little overview of who you are.
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Well, thank you First, ana, and a little bit about me is I grew up in a family of seven generations of medical doctors and I chose not to go into medicine.
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My dad worked too hard.
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He was a critical care surgeon and so he worked an average of 80 to a hundred hour weeks and I thought that's the way all doctors were.
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So I wanted something a little bit more time to travel and have time with family.
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So I actually went into business, into marketing, and for last decade or so we work with real estate agents here in the US to help them generate listings.
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It's a little company called Agent Dominator, but with the seven generations of medical doctors, one of the things that the Lord brought into my pathway was to get back into healing.
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My generation's past brought healing through medicine, the science of medicine, and what I want to share about is healing through the science of spiritual laws and prayer that we find from the Bible.
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So that's a kind of very short synopsis of me.
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Yes, and it ties in so well with some of the things, the topics that I've been discussing with various guests throughout season four about healing what's right, what's wrong, how are people doing it right?
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How are they doing it wrong?
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Are you supposed to be making money off of this?
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Should people be saying I have the gift?
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All these different things?
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And that is why, when you messaged me on Podmatch originally I was very leery, if I'm going to be honest, of that, because I grew up not knowing anything about this topic other than it was very Pentecostal and you don't need to have any part of that, because it's not right, don't do it.
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And then the other side of the spectrum is well, you're wrong.
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You guys are wrong, thinking the sign gifts are gone, that the healing's gone, that God doesn't do these things.
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And I'm somewhere in the middle, trying to figure out what I believe, not what I've been told by my parents or people that I follow now, who say that the healing ministries are doing it wrong.
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That's not how it is, all the things.
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I got all this chirping in my ear and I'm just trying to figure out what's truth and I didn't know what to do when you messaged me and I'm like I don't know, I don't know.
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So I told you that and you were very gracious with your response and wanted to have a conversation with me.
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And that's where I want to start is that we had a very long I think it was an hour and a half conversation just discussing my concerns and you gave me an idea of what you do.
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And then I had mentioned a chronic illness that I have and you took me through the steps of what you actually do, which really did transform my life, my mindset for sure.
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I felt immediately lighter after we did the repentance and everything.
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I felt a lot better.
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I was riding high for a while and then I started thinking again, high for a while, and then I started thinking again and I started mulling it over.
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I'm saying, okay, so is this the good healing ministry?
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Is this the right healing ministry?
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Because you didn't take any credit for it.
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You gave it all to the glory to God, which I really love that you do that.
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I listen to your podcast.
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You're constantly talking about God and putting him first and center, and that's what I love, because that lets me know that these people must have it right, because he's the one who gives us these gifts, he's the one in charge.
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So I started mulling it over and I didn't know what to believe anymore, honestly, because I mean, I thought I was having an outbreak with my chronic illness a couple of days ago, but I haven't really had any issues with it since then.
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So if that was it, it lasted very short compared to what it's ever been before.
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Maybe that wasn't it at all, I don't even know.
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So that in and of itself, really felt like a confirmation that I need to dig deeper, I need to understand more.
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So that's why I've been digging deeper into your podcast and that's why I'm having you on during season four as my last guest of season four, because I really feel like you have something here that is God-centered, that is going to help heal people in more ways than what they're thinking.
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And being someone like me who's been in a legalistic background or who's just been dealing with all this constant noise of you, should believe this, you should believe that, don't believe this, don't believe that.
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And being so overwhelmed with all the information.
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You hear all the buzzwords that people say.
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Sometimes you say a few of them as well when you're talking about deliverance or soul ties and things like that and I just kind of I don't want to say I cringe, but I guess I kind of wince a little because I've heard that those are either new age or you don't say that or that's not right.
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But when I listen to what you're saying, it makes sense, I understand it from a biblical perspective and I just I have got so many thoughts running through my head and I'm going to let you talk now because you kind of have an idea of my qualms.
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First off, I'm glad you've been going through my podcast, and the video version of it, either on YouTube or on my app, is even more demonstrable because you can see what I'm drawing.
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But you are in the same spot where I was and where most people are, and the same spot where the early disciples were.
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We see the same issue with them If you go back to Acts.
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So the Messiah, all the promises, all the faith, all the covenants were given to Israel.
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This is what Romans 9 says.
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And then Jesus comes through the line of Israel as the Messiah, and he came only to Israel and he even said I'm only here for Israel.
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That's why he would turn, like the woman in I think it was Sidon, she was a Gentile and he kind of turned her away.
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And this is the one where she said yes, but Lord, even the dogs will eat the scraps that left, you know, thrown off the table by the kids, say okay, well, for your faith, I'll, you know, be healed.
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Your daughter will be healed.
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And so, when the new covenant came about, jesus was resurrected and the apostles and disciples are now starting to share the gospel.
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They thought it was only for Jews, because the Jewish nation was the chosen nation, the one that everything had been given to.
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So then, fast forward a little bit.
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Peter is staying at a man's house, and from heaven, in his vision comes a sheet held by two, by up the four corners with a bunch of unclean animals, and a voice says arise, peter, kill and eat.
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And Peter, being the good Jew, said no way, lord.
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I've never eaten anything unclean and I'm not about to right now.
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And God says what God has cleansed no longer consider unclean.
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That happened three times.
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And then some guys come and say our master sent us to you and this is now Cornelius.
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So Cornelius is a Gentile, he's not Jew.
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It was forbidden for Jews to even enter the home of a Gentile.
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But Peter goes because God said to go so fast forward.
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Peter goes to Jerusalem and now the Christian Jews that are then steeped in the legalism this is the important they're steeped in the legalism of Judaism.
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They start to rebuke Peter for doing what should not happen.
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You should not go to the Gentiles because the gospel is only for the Jews.
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And what happened is that was their level of revelation, and God accepts that level of revelation.
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But then Peter says hey, I used to be just like you were.
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I thought it was only for the Jews, but then God showed me differently.
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He not only sent me there, but while I was preaching at the Gentiles' home, before I even finished preaching, before they were even baptized, the Holy Spirit came on them, just like he did on us, and they all started speaking in tongues.
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So who am I to stand in God's way of what he wants to do?
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So now what happened is they have new revelation, new information about what God is doing, and that changes their doctrine.
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Does this make sense?
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So one of the things that we all battle with is believing what we've been told in conflict of what we might be seeing.
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This is what I shared with you with my church my church, the one I was in at the time very legalistic, very much black and white, just by the Bible except it's not by the Bible, it's by their opinion of what the Bible is saying and they were a cessationist church.
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Supernatural gifts no longer existed, and I'll share this part of the story in just a little bit, but just to wrap up this portion of it, as I was going out and praying for people and God had given me a gift of healing, I was seeing people healed and I was sharing the gospel with them, I went back to the senior pastor of my mega church and his first comment was well, you know, satan can heal too, and I didn't like that comment.
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So I then went to the next senior pastor to share what's going on and he said well, you know, satan can heal too.
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In other words, they were more willing to attribute something good to Satan rather than change their doctrine of what they've been taught, their doctrine of what they've been taught and that taught me a really big, important lesson, and that is never believe what man says about God's word.
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I know that sounds strange, but watch this.
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Jesus says in John 17 that because I'm leaving, I'm going to send you the helper, and the helper is going to reveal to you things that you do not know and is going to instruct you in these ways.
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Why would we turn to man to instruct us rather than the Holy Spirit?
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Why would we reject what the Holy Spirit is instructing us on?
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Because man said something different.
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And ever since that moment, with my church, I made a conscious decision that I would no longer believe them at face value.
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In fact, I would no longer believe them at face value.
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In fact, I would no longer believe any man at face value.
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I'll listen to what you say, I'll ask you for the scriptures in which you support it, and then I'm going to go to the word and I'm going to research it myself and see if that's exactly what it says, because I find that a lot of things people teach don't really line up as clearly in the scripture as I would think they should have been.
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Yeah, no, that, absolutely.
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That makes sense and again lines up with what's been going on in season four, which is read your Bible, know what it says, know what God is telling you.
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Don't just take what other people are saying and just leave it at that, because there's so much out there, so much content being thrown at you.
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There's people who say that they can heal, that they can deliver.
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But if you look at the fruit, if you look at what's going on, do you actually see that?
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Do you see real things happening?
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You know there's other people who are saying these things can't happen, they're wrong, they're of the devil and everything.
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And you got to find a way to cut through that.
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And the only way to do that is with the Bible, because it is the only truth in this world that we can actually hold on to with a death grip and trust that what it says is true.
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So if everything else is confusing, just hold on to the Bible and read it for yourself and understand what God is saying in it.
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That's the main point of season four.
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So I'm glad you enforced that.
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So you know, the interesting thing with that is, I would like to add one more part to it.
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This is the thing that I have learned over the years what we think the Bible says is merely our opinion, because, watch this I believe the Bible said that—I'm going to get controversial real quickly—that we're supposed to baptize babies with sprinkled water.
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Mm-hmm.
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But yet when I researched the Bible, every instance of baptism, from the flood of Noah to the Israelites going through the Red Sea, to John the Baptist and Jesus and everyone else, is a submersion.
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In fact, the Greek word baptize means submersion, it doesn't mean sprinkle, and the only evidence, the only precedence we have, is that you baptize an adult, someone who is able to make a decision.
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Yeah.
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So a lot of good people.
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And I'm not criticizing, I'm not saying baptizing an infant and sprinkling is wrong.
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I'm saying it's not biblical because it's not in the Bible.
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It has to be man's opinion of what the Bible they think is saying.
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I also thought that a gift of healing didn't exist until God gave it to me and I started seeing people healed.
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And I go back to my dad, who's a doctor, and said man, I just saw this person with RSD healed.
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What is RSD?
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And he said, oh, that's a neurological disease, it's very painful, it's incurable.
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If that happened, that's a miracle, right.
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And I'm telling dad these things and he keeps saying well, that's a miracle, right.
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And I'm telling dad these things and he keeps saying well, that's a miracle.
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And then I used to think that I'll even be more controversial from some of your other podcasts that Christians can have demons.
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And then I started getting into deliverance and everyone I was working with are Christians, including missionaries that have been on the field, and I learned a lot that they can have demons.
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But it's not what we think and it's not possession, it's not ownership, but what starts to happen is the gospel.
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The Bible is all about one theme of message the fall of man and the restoration of man back to relationship with God.
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So it's the gospel message of salvation from the fall to being resurrected again.
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It's really not a textbook on these tangential things that we like to discuss and like to argue over.
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It'll make comments and then what happens is we end up trying to come to hard doctrinal conclusions from just a few little snippets of information, and it's not really enough information to make hard doctrinal conclusions.
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It's maybe enough information to have what I'll call a working theory.
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I think this is it, but let me go test it and see if that theory holds up.
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And until you start to see, like what happened with Peter and the Gentiles, their theory was gospel is only for the Jews.
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Then they see God work with the Gentiles and go oh well, maybe it's also for the Gentiles.
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And now, once they put on those glasses that it could be for the Gentiles, they go back to scripture to see what they missed.
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And what they saw was all these evidences in scripture where it's talking about all nations are being saved, not just the Jewish nation, and they go.
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I never saw that.
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But what happens is we read the scripture with our predetermined understanding because we heard someone else preach it.
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Well, that must be true.
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So then we read the scripture with that in mind, and sometimes it isn't quite as true as we think.
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It's not that we're completely wrong and it's nothing to be upset or concerned about, but it's definitely one of those things that let's don't create division within the Christendom, saying that my belief is better than you and you believe this, so bad on you, because this is evil and all those type of things.
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What I've learned is we need to treat everything with love and grace and embrace the concept of mystery.
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The more I pressed into the supernatural of what happens as walking in Christ, the more I realize how mysterious everything is.
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So think about this comment.
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I think this is Luke 640 or 1640.
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It's one somewhere like that.
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Jesus is saying that the disciple is not above the teacher but, when fully trained, will become like the teacher, and our teacher is Jesus.
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So when we become fully trained and we become like him, what does that mean?
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Raising the dead, healing the sick, casting out demons?
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Or does it just mean I'm a nice person and I don't get too upset, but none of the supernatural comes with it?
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So we have to reckon with what does it really mean?
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And what I've learned is, the more we press in to become like the teacher, to become fully trained, so many mysteries of what I thought were right tend to be not accurate and it opens up a lot more questions, of even more mysteries that you just kind of press into.
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It's really exciting.
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It's overwhelming and mind blowing, and I think the reason why it really hits me the way that it does is because in 2020, as everyone else did I had a lot of time on my hands because there was nothing else really to do.
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Everyone was locked up.
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So I started listening to podcasts, all the different things, learning about new stuff, learning about medical things.
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I don't trust the modern medical system anymore.
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I don't even trust our government.
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I've got my theories there, too, that are coming true.
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All the stuff.
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I was all over it in different areas, learning new things, and I was dead set that the deliverance ministry was wrong, the healing ministry was wrong, All that stuff.
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The sign gifts are gone.
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And then I come Well, you and I've had other guests on and friends and I'm like, okay, I get that.
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And then we had a pastor at our church who talked about prophecy in a way that I had never heard before, and all this stuff just started marinating in my brain.
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Then I started feeling stressed because during the whole 2020 unwrapping of everything I've ever known, on top of that, I had a spiritual unwrapping of things that I once thought were good and safe and true, that were no longer that way.
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With my Christian music, my Christian artists, that I believed in the Christian books I read all the different things.
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Where I just started, everything was crumbling, people were falling away from the Lord that I used to listen.
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The different things.
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Where I just started, everything was crumbling, people were falling away from the Lord that I used to listen to their music.
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I was like what is going on here?
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It's just everything just started unraveling, like God just ripped open all my presents and said here, now we're going to rewrap them nice and neat, the way they should be wrapped.
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And I'm still wrapping and I still sometimes he's ripping them off, going no, no, you're wrapping it wrong.
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I'm a terrible Christmas gift wrapper anyways.
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So, but it's just so much information that I'm still learning and I'm trying to embrace certain things is just so frustrating, because I've had all of it.
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I've been to Pentecostal churches before.
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That really made me personally feel uncomfortable because of how they did things and I was like this doesn't feel right, and I know we shouldn't be based off of our feelings with anything, which is another problem that comes into it is we get so focused on how we feel about something.
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This made me feel this way, so it has to be right.
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But even sin can do that.
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Otherwise we wouldn't want to sin, because sin makes you feel good.
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So it's kind of it's just, it's so much.
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But at the same time it's exciting because God is not done.
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And the more that I'm learning, the more that I'm understanding and listening to various positions, I'm realizing what you had just said about that verse in Luke where it was talking about being like the teacher, fully like the teacher.
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If there isn't more to it other than just being a good person and doing the 10 commandments, then I feel like most of us have arrived.
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But we've been told that we don't arrive until we're in heaven.
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So if that's the case, then we must have a lot more to do and a lot more to learn.
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And, like you said, there's mysteries, there's things we don't understand yet.
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But if we're willing to open up and understand the Bible, not according to what we've been told or programmed, but have an open mind and an open heart to hear what God is trying to say, then we can get those mysteries.
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It reminds me of another verse and I'm trying to remember what it is.
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I think it's an Old Testament one where it says I will show you things Right, not yet.
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Yes.
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Yes, yes, I've heard that before and I've heard people say that that's what they use for deliverance ministry and all this stuff.
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But that's not right, that's not the way it is, whatever, but that verse is in there for a reason and I'm thinking about that now.
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It just came to me just now, thinking about this there's mysteries, there's things we don't know about God.
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He's not an easy, tangible God.
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If he were, I don't think he'd be a very powerful God if we could pin him down.
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So the fact that there's still so much that we need to learn lets me know that I serve a more powerful God than I've been giving him credit for, and I thank you for opening my eyes.
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I thank all my guests that have been on for season four for giving me different perspectives, different thoughts.
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They've challenged me in different ways and I appreciate it so much.
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Let me share a real important thing on interpretation, because all of these issues fall back into the word interpretation.
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How do you interpret God's word?
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Because God's word is not meant to be studied as a textbook.
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Unfortunately, most people study as a textbook and they study only the words on the page.
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And because the words are conveying spiritual truths and that there's actually a spiritual dynamic with each word, then we're not able to lift it off the page.
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Most of us study the Bible as words printed on an opaque sheet of paper, which means that the only words I'm studying are the words that are on the page and exactly what they mean.
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So I pull out a dictionary, I try to reference it and what's going back and forth in different verses, and then I think it through and say, okay, how do I unlock whatever this truth is?
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And so now I'm applying human wisdom to interpret a spiritual truth.
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That human wisdom, god says, is folly.
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What actually happens is, as we start to grow, when you start to read the Word and you're reading into the Scriptures, it's almost as if the words are printed on.
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Start to read the Word and you're reading into the Scriptures, it's almost as if the words are printed on sheets of glass and, as you're reading the words on that page, there's depths and depths of dimensional truth that's even far beyond there, and the only way to uncover those is through revelation by the Holy Spirit.
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This is where Jesus was saying I will send a helper who will reveal to you things that you do not know.
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This is where Jesus was saying I will send a helper who will reveal to you things that you do not know.
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This is what Jeremiah was saying call to me and I will answer you and tell you great and mighty things that you do not know.
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God was saying that through Jeremiah.
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So when we interpret the Bible, we have to first look at how should it be interpreted?
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A lot of people interpret it more symbolically, or possibly metaphorically, that you know.
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When Jesus says, you can say to this mountain be taken up and cast in the sea and believe in your heart, then it'll happen, we go.
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Well, he's not really speaking about a mountain, he's speaking about big things in your life.
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Okay, so now we start to apply man's wisdom, because what we say is well, that's impossible, that's ludicrous, you can't speak to a mountain.
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Yeah, we're finite creatures.
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We can't possibly imagine that we can say, hey mountain, go over there, and then it's just going to lift up and go Right.
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We've never seen it so right.
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So so we say that it has to be speaking figuratively and not literally.
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So I'm leading up to something.
